While this article does have some merits, there are more alarming facts that have not truly been addressed and as a taxpayer with an open mind, they should be. First and foremost, these employees do a wonderful job, day in and day out. Nobody has said that they do not. If someone misconstrues a comment, that is their problem. No public official has said anything negative about the work they do as it is important. You will never see someone publicly say that the EMS employees and their department do not provide a vital service to the community and are not wonderful people. I give them a lot of credit for the work they do day in and day out.
First the facts….the EMS Department is LOSING MONEY. The employees of this department make an average of $72,000 per year which does not include the additional costs to the town such as health care, pension payments, clothing allowances and longevity. With those benefits, the total expense to the town rises to well over $125,000 per employee. Statistics show that these benefits can cost upwards of 30 – 40 percent of the “base” salary and in this case $72,000 is their “base” pay. With that said, these employees, who do a wonderful job every day, are the highest paid emergency medical service employees in the State of NJ and the country. In comparison, a paramedic in NJ makes approximately $50,000 a year and provides advanced life support to the public. Whereas an EMS employee can only provide basic life support. Semantics aside, the facts are the facts.
In addition, you have to factor in the cost of fuel, repairs, supplies and any additional business function expenses that I have no mentioned but would be needed if we were running a business, ie, computers, telephone, utilities, copy machines, etc.
Therefore, in an effort to SAVE money, the town has sought bids to provide emergency care by an outside, private EMS provider. By eliminating this department and exercising the right to public bid, the town has sought an avenue to reduce their expenses of this money losing department. Unfortunately, people want to debate these facts but they are the facts and cannot be disputed. If a private provider does win out, when you call 911, they will respond, that is their job, that is why they were hired. If you read the detailed bids submitted, and what the town has requested of the providers, you will see that they will be required to have a fixed number of ambulances in town and available for a call. The facts are the facts.
Listen, no one wants to see people lose their job. However, if you and I were in business, and we were losing money, what would we do? We would either close up or run ourselves out of business.
With reference to the repairs to the stadium, these are immediate needs that need to be addressed and the Senator and the committee acted appropriately in repairing the lights. One issue has nothing to do with the other. UEZ funds are not available by law to fund the entire EMS department, if they were, they would be utilized.
With that said, I hope that I shed light on an issue that seems to be spiraling out of control my hate mongers and those try so hard to instill fear in the public by saving that someone else cannot provide the same service you provide.
With reference to the article above, the $65 per household would never work. Although it may be an option in Florida or Arizona, if it worked so well, why aren’t the remaining 48 states utilizing this idea? There are dozens upon dozens of people that are transported by this department on a monthly basis or otherwise known as frequent flyers.
As the saying goes, if you quit your job today, someone will be there tomorrow to fill your shoes. In this case, if the EMS department does go, someone will be there to fill their shoes too, it is a fact and the facts do not lie. I wish all those involved good luck.
This is the most truthfully written article on the subject todate. Thank you.
How come the numbers that the commitee is saying and the numbers that the township submitted to the state are not close to the same.
Why are they busy saying they are losing money, when asked for straight figures no body knows???
If they are losing that much money, lets see the figures and see how much it really is.
very well written artical, but u do not know the whole facts, ur missing so much. extracation is done by the vollys, and not the paid not the fire dept not no one else, to have someone die bc we need to wait for brick or howell do it, its not fair bc we wanna save money. so just this one point alone says u dont know all the facts, these privte company wont do it bc theres no money on it for them. so again what is your life worth? mine is worth more. not to bash on anyone here, but hatzola dose a wonderfull job for our commuity, what about everyone else? what are they worth? we all know the truth and some poeple like u MR author dont care about anyone but u. so again i ask you please before u comment or attempt to comment please know ALL the facts
I have nothing negative to say! Wow!
Well written… There is just one more point that I would like to add, a point that one committeeman told me. The Township cannot even offer the current ems dept. to remain open for business and take a cut in pay to bring it in line with other towns in the area, because being that they are bound by a union contract the offer would be considered a unfair labor practice which is not permitted under the law.
So what i say is shut it down, sign a contract with a private company and when that contract is up we can think about opening a new EMS Dept.
I think we should fight the wasted $1,000,000 going to buy garbage cans being purchased by Public Works! Talking about a business who is losing money everyday, yet it seems to have large sums of money for new projects and interesting ideas! We need new managers!
To: Figures….
1. There should be no difference if they are loosing money or not. They are being overpaid from my pocket
2. If you feel they can run on their own let the EMS Dept. promise not to accept any money from the Twp. besides for what they bring into the coffers. If they cannot manage on their own lets give it to someone who could.
If the township is so desperate for money, why do they keep selling property for $5.00 and then who ever bought either rents it out or sells it for hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars???
Why did they just buy brand new plows which they couldn’t use because they are to wide to go down the streets in lakewood, so they weren’t even used in the snow storms we had this year????
Why do they have a fleet of trucks which are never used?? i.e. there are several brand new garbage trucks which are not usable because they cannot unload them at the dump.
Wouldn’t it make sense to verify the size of the trucks before they are purchsed to make sure they could be used???
Why do they have a paving truck which cost around $500,000 which is never used becuase its cheaper to get an outside company to pave the streets???
Why not get rid of the Police department and out source it, I’m sure it will be cheaper?
To: WHY?
All your points if true are valid, but we gotta do one thing at a time. If you have documentation bring it to the Twp. meeting and submit it at the public portion of the meeting.
To: To #7
You know yourself that you don’t make sense so why are you posting?
#8 – you are 100% wrong. No trucks were brought with plows that couldn’t fit down streets – that is a false statement. There is no fleet of trucks that is never used – another false statement. Two new trucks were bought for the single stream recycling pick up. The county has delayed accepting single stream but it is scheduled to start shortly. All our trucks work on all streets, when a truck can’t get down a street in a snow storm it’s because cars are parked on both sides. Doesn’t leave enough room for 12 ft plow to get by. It is not cheaper to have an outside company pave. We can’t keep operators cause of the low pay. Maybe u need to come down to dpw to see for yourself. Stop in an you will be given a tour. And yes, were sure that u all will want to get rid of us next to SAVE money. Why don’t u ask some of the Towns that got rid of there EMS and DPW’s to SAVE money and see how much it is costing them now. So man up WHY and come on down.
An ems department was never meant to be a money making business just like a police department or a fire department. Why don’t we just close down the police department and have someone else do it. Did you know the police officers make around $90,000? That’s more than $40,000 more then they make in the nypd. No one complains because these cops are actually making the money they should be. Talking about how much medics make is ridiculous. You are talking about monoc medics who have a monopoly on medics in the Monmouth and ocean county area. Go outside of there and they make much more then that. These Emts along with the other municipalities that have emts make what they should make. Not to mention that they all agreed to take a pay decrease. And to say that $72,000 is the average is crazy because that’s what they top out at so the newer ones don’t make close to that the ones that make that have been here for more then 10 years. Bottom line most municipality based services lose money. They are not there to make money. They bill to help offset the cost because the insurance pays for it but to go with a private garbage ems service just because we are loosing money is crazy. Garbage pick, snow removal, police, fire, crossing guards all cost money. Would we outsource that to if we could???? And one more thing do you know we have a guy who picks up dead animals of the road and he makes about 50,000 a year. Why can’t the garbage men pick that up?? There are many things we could do before getting rid of an essential service in our town
TO #10
We hope to have enough documentation to bring this up at the next meeting.
To: Anonymous
March 9, 2010 at 4:22 pm
You still didn’t respond to the underlying issue, why should we spend extra money then we have to, if we are not compromising on the service.
Now to your points
1. Shutting down the PD….. Don’t talk silly. why cant we have a normal discussion?
2. Medics…. Good point
3. Agreed to pay decrease….. They can tell you whatever they want, the Twp. cant do that…. unfair labor practice
4. They are not there to make money… correct but if its possible to give the same service w/o loosing money why shouldn’t we?
5. There are many things we could do before getting rid of an essential service in our town…. No one is getting rid of the service.
To WHY?:
Please remember when you come, your concern isn’t to save the EMS rather to help the TWP. save even more money, and if you talk respectfully I promise you will get a response. I have experience.
to 12 = by state law the dead animals have to be brought to a shelter. Also he does more then pu dead animals.
To The way it is
Obviously I don’t think they should get rid of the police I was trying to make a point that I feel its that’s crazy to get rid of the EMS.
Now in response, if you are going to listen to that garbage that a private ems service is not downgrading is completely crazy. They have much less experience than most of these current employees at LEMS. It’s the nature of the private companies. They don’t pay enough to keep people doing for years. Plus most of their calls are non emergency transports. You want to say what langert said about medics being there on all serious calls. Why don’t you get a number on how many times they are not available or have to be met in RT to the hospital because they were responding from Jackson or Toms River or brick. It happens very very often. I am not part of lems but I am an EMT. I have seen some of these private companies work a serious call. A lot of times they just don’t know what they are doing. If you are not active in 911 emergencies then you just are not going to be good at it. It’s all about experience. Anyone who is an EMT can tell you that no matter how well you studied in the class and how well you scored on your test it means nothing. On the truck everything is different. The seniors in this town all feel comfortable because they know they have good people coming to help. It will not be the same if they leave. And another point. Who is going to respond to fires and do standbys for the police when they are knocking down a door in a drug bust?? Is quality going to do this for free?? This is not just being able to replace a service and get the same in return. It’s just not possible. And you didn’t answer about Garbage removal.
what does he do and why cant someone who already works for the township in the public works department do it?
Perhaps if the people EMS takes to the hospital PAID for the service there would be more money for the EMS. Face it – every day the EMS transports or services people who have no insurance and, when sent a bill for the EMS service, do not answer it. The township has to foot the costs for the people who do not pay. Maybe the town should just hire a collection agency for EMS billing. Be advised – an outside EMS company will definitely sent out bills, and if unpaid, WILL start collection proceedings to get their money. And, I believe, their cost will be MUCH MORE than the current EMS billings.
Thank you to the Lakewood Scoop for posting my comments and more importantly, thank you to those who have read my response for what it is worth, just the facts and not scare tactics. I never imagined that what I wrote would be a whole article but as a taxpayer, the truth will always win out. Let me now again address some serious misconceptions by some of the comments posted by others on what I wrote.
Unfortunately, I do not have the time nor the space on this site to place all of my thoughts. We can argue this topic for days and weeks on end. With that said, let me address the comments by “come on” as they are completely erroneous and false. The town will make the necessary adjustments for extrication, should it be needed and if in fact they outsource this service. Hatzolah as you know, offers this service and will step up to the plate should they be contacted. Are you suggesting that they are not capable? Again, scare tactics will get you nowhere. In addition, every surrounding town offers mutual aide. If I am not mistaken, Lakewood EMS carries a small, hand held portable extrication device. My point is, a private service can afford one too and carry that same device on their vehicle if needed.
To date, the most ridiculous comments here state “why not outsource the police department.” I am quite puzzled…maybe you think it’s still Purim and are still drinking. First and foremost, you must be a sworn law enforcement officer certified by the State of New Jersey to enforce laws; therefore, a police department cannot be outsourced. Nice try but it is illegal. EMS service does not require the enforcement of laws the last time I checked.
In addition, how many members of the EMS department work for a paid service right now or have in the past? Check the numbers and you will be amazed. Therefore, for someone to say that private service employees are not capable is just wrong and hurtful to those hard working employees, employees just like the EMS department employees…which are hard working, dedicated employees. The current EMS employees were rookies at one time too, weren’t they?
With regards to a private service billing clients, that is what they do. If you fail to pay your home mortgage, what happens? They call, they mail and they foreclose. New Jersey has laws to protect it’s citizens against unwanted and harassing calls. So again, scaring the public with this idea is ludicrous. If you receive a service, expect to pay for it and if not, you will be billed.
If a private service does win out, they too might lose money on those who cannot afford to pay. But, with that said, we live in a great country whereas no one should be denied this service and therefore, whether we like it or not, they must be transported and treated. Therefore, don’t change the subject and try and shift the EMS losses ($) on those who cannot afford to pay for the care.
Just the facts…
All things considered, this seems to be an unfortunate case of them vs. us in some of the posts. This is a sad thing to see in today’s society.
The decisions that will be made by our committee, those chosen to represent the best interests of the township, will undoubtedly have consequences to all the public employees in this town.
Privatize this, privatize that…. And so on.
On the posts that I see saying the EMS Dept is not needed, it appears to mostly be from the population who utilize the services of Hatzola. With that being said, who is going to stand up for the injustice when the private service that is chosen to provide Emergency Medical Services for the Township of Lakewood, not the Goym Community but the whole township, gets a court order to stop having Hatzola taking from the profits that the private agency would make. There is no differentiating when it comes to the dollar. The Lakewood First Aid Squad will be shut down due to loss of donations because no one will give to an entity who doesn’t respond. The agencies who bid already stated that they will not require mutual aid (i.e. First Aid Squads). Not just LFAS but that also includes Hatzola. If you think it can’t happen, it will. I have seen it happen in the northern NJ towns that brought in private services. And think of the law suits if Hatzola is protected and the LFAS is not.
Everybody needs to look at the big picture. We are ALL a community, together we stand and divided we will fall.
Thank you for your response to my article. There is only one glaring problem.
You cannot negate the suggestions that I brought up as if they were mine, because they are not mine. They were made by a review board paid by the state to make money saving suggestions to our town.
We didn’t listen to any of the suggestions. Now, you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The main problen though is that the EMS deals with peoples lives. More than public works, more than the police, and more than our fire department even. To take any chances with a private company that we have no relationship with. A private, for profit entity which may compromise on our safety in order to save money. Is in my opinion, absolutely irresponsible, and an insult to every person in our town.
Emergency Services is not something that can be experimented with to see what works. If it doesn’t work, lives will be lost.yes, we can always return to having an EMS, but those lives will have been lost.
Ther was another suggestion made by the state that the Committee could implement to save money. The state suggested that all non township employees, Township Committeemen, Township attornies, and judges no longer be given costly health insurance. So, show us how serious you are about saving money. I have a number of a very nice insurance salesman. You can pay health insurance just like the rest of us, and save the taxpayer money without compromising on their, or even your, safety.
As a former Officer in the LAFS and LFD my main concern is that the Board of Ed outsourced the school bussing. It saved money until the BOE fired all the drivers and sold the busses then the price went out of sight and the taxpayers paid the price. Will this happen in a year or two with EMS. Also many areas hae first responders who handle all emergency calls this may be the answer for Lakewood.
If you want to win the next election. You should make a statement about the EMS. Your not voting is not enough. The sniors are not going to support you this time.
Missing the facts should be the headline for those who respond here with off the wall comments. If the town hires an outside firm, they will charge the town NOTHING, ZERO, ZIP. IT WILL COST THE TOWN NOTHING. Currently it costs the town over 1 million dollars. Therefore, stop attempting to compare this situation to the board of education and the school bus issues. Just the facts. That is all I have said….not scare tactics, not lies, just the facts. If you want to post comments, get YOUR facts right.
Enough with the rumors and speculation, is the EMS Dept. shutting down and when will it happen?
I guess I should go pick up a Basic First Aid Book tomorrow so I can treat myself then self transport to the hospital, I think I stand a better chance of surviving then having a private agency treat and transport me. Plus I feel more comfortable sitting around scratching my head instead of seeing two young inexperienced EMTs scratch their heads while they try to figure out how to handle my emergency problem.
Oh yeah, I forgot the state is cutting my helath insurance as well. Guess I’ll just go and help support Home Depot or Loews and buy some lumber for my box.
To: Anonymous:
March 9, 2010 at 5:12 pm
It sounds like you know something that I don’t, so please educate me. What are the statistics that you are throwing at us please document the amount of times the Lkwd EMS messed up versus how many times a private EMS messed up (you can use Hatzalah as an example). Also how would you feel if MONOC wins the contract, they have more experience and better training then the EMS that we have now (yes I know that a few guys on EMS are trained as paramedics). If I had a vote, MONOC would get the contract in a heart beat even if they were not the lowest bidder. As far as your concern as to when the Twp needs services, it can be put in the contract that it gotta be done for free. As far as your comment on the garbage I don’t feel I know enough to respond.
Why aren’t the EMS members willing to bring their salaries in line with the average pay of EMS members in our area? If they’re not willing, THEN LET THEM LOSE THEIR JOBS!!!! WE DO NOT HAVE TO PAY MORE!!!!!!
STOP WITH THE EXCTRICATIONIT WILL BE COVERED BY LVFA OR GIVE IT TO THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND THE OLD VOLLIES WILL JOIN THE FD
The paid squad is not even allowed to use the extrication truck so y will closing the paid squad have anything to do with that (and even if it does let the fire department do it just like it is done in most other municipality s in ocean and monmouth county IE: dover brick jackson lacy manchester wall freehold ,u get my drift )
MONOC for lakewood FA
All the resources you would ever need period
Hey township committeemen, I have some really cheap policies I can get you. You can have the same great service as before. If you can shut down EMS to save$$$$$ then you can give up your top of the line health policy.
hatzolah should get the contract. They do a super job for free. imagine how much more they can do with a few tax bux. Am i missing some facts?
please fill me in.
just the facts, please please if ur in the field ur blinded. hatzolah is a wonderfull org. for us and thats that. im in the field, u can come talk to me anytime u want. hatzolah dose not want to step up to the plate bc they are vollys and why should they, they were designed to help us. im been on scene were as soon as lems pulled up they ran, maybe to another call? whocares!! there not gonna want to go on calls that lems goes on!!! thats a fact ask any hatzlah member? i daer you !!!! as of the tool that lems carries. it heavy and hard to use. and its only a small start till the vollys get on scene with the extrication truck with EVERYother tool. u must understand this is meant in a nice way. u dont understand all the back info. ur talking and not listening, hello open ur ears talk to ppl that know the facts not that make up the facts. clear you head for one min, take a deep breathe,and
Corrupt politicians make the other ten percent look bad.
This article does not address concern number one from the previous article.
Of all the ways to save money, wht are you starting with the one that does its job well, and saves lives!!!!
There are so many plces to cut costs. Sick days, pensions, health insurance for committee. Endless. Hands off the EMS.
Bobby and co. Should realize, they will not get reelected if they keep this up. Actually even if they stop now, I doubt the town is voting him in this year. HH all the way!!!!!
does anyone know if the private ems will have fast responder vehicle on patrol?
There will be no first responder, they plan on using their ambulance. So therefore this means if the ambulance is on a call you will have to wait, or if you are having problems breathing, chest pain, trapped in your car after a car accident, etc…. you have to wait until they pick someone up and then they will rush to get away from you to go on to another call. It will be more about treating people as business instead of treating them as a human being!
why is first responder car being eliminated? what does this have to do with ambulances? i thought this car was promised to the senior communities for fast help?
This is a very well written article form someone who seems to know an awful lot of INSIDE information, I really wish who ever wrote it would sign their name and staad behind it, or is it that this is how the Mayor states his side of the story? Either way it makes no sense of how the PUBLIC WORKS isnt being looked into being privatized. This letter doesnt state how they received a 4% RAISE. with this financial crisis to be giving ANYBODY a raise is just REDICULOUS< why are my taxes going to giving anybody a raise, i want to hear our fine committee response to this additional money they gave to the PUBLIC WORKS dept? Why arent they being looked into going private, Waste Managment does the same job they do. Many other towns do it with them and provide the same service, there is no difference with garbage pick up. Or do we need to keep it there to have something to park at that nice 25 MILLION DOLLAR facility with vehicles that cant be used to go to the dumps? They must come back to the facility and transfer the garbage into a vehicle that can fit, thats a waste of gas, tax dollars and man power. Does PUBLIC WORKS make money for the town? At least the EMS dept gets some of the money back. Look on Data Universe, some of the salaries being paid out of that department are insane , and then you add in all this other stuff they claim costs money like " copy machines, phones " HAHA pathetic that you need to go to petty expenses like that to try and justify the destruction of a much needed service. What about Franklin having a township vehicle? We pay for his gas with our taxes, what is the need for him to have a township vehicle? Does he respond to severe garbage spills? IM sure after this post if it makes it to the site, a public works employee will comment back on how much they are needed. I want to know about your raise mister public worker.. and why you need a vehicle Mr Franklin?
I pay $87.00 every quarter to FCI for my garbage pickup which is twice a week with no limit.
#38. A resident in Four Seasons says he called 911 for his mother. It took 45 minutes for a private ambulance to show up. When he asked where they came from the replied “Red Bank.”