Dear TLS. My question of ‘What comes first, tuition or Summer vacation’ may sound like a silly question, but let me explain. I currently have 5 children in school, and tuition adds up to over $20,000 annually. Like many people in town, at the beginning of each school year, I call up the schools to negotiate a lower price for tuition, and then try to make quarterly payments to fully pay up.
Now, I’m a hard working man who commutes daily, and like many commuters, I unfortunately only get to properly spend time with my children on the weekends, Shabbos.
Comes Summer, and my children, like many children, expect to spend more quality time with myself and my wife, which includes going on day trips and vacations.
With the above scenario, you may now understand the question a bit differently.
With a limited budget, I have the following two options:
A) Pressure myself to pay as close to full tuition as possible, and come Summer, given my financial status, I don’t have any extras for family trips and vacations.
or B) Comes the beginning of each school year, I negotiate my tuition bills as much as possible, hence saving me a few thousand dollars a year for ‘extras’. (And by extras, I don’t mean a new Lexus, I mean extras to spend on the family).
So TLS readers, an honest answer, Halachically or Hashkafacally, would be appreciated.
There is no blanket answer to this question. If you are a maamin you could borrow the money to pay full tuition [at least for the boys limudei koidesh] even if you don’t have a way to pay it back, because HKB”H promises to repay it. Levu olaiy veani poireia. That doesn’t mean negotiate it means take a loan from anywhere, I guess you could pay with your credit card a year in advance.
The Limudei Chol & girls tuition you may have to scratch a deal.
As for what is first,each situation is different, & of course there are different scales in spending. One must make sure the children are happy and don’t feel deprived.
The Mishna Berura in Hilchos Shabboss, when speaking about parting [ by ship] on a journey isn’t alllowed within 3 days of Shabboss, but for a mitzvah one may, & today parnoso is a mitzvah, the Mishna Berura adds, not just parnoso, [bear necesities] but even harvocho, meaning more than that is also a mitzvah, so I take it each case needs judgement, but todays kids need some harvocho to stay healthy & happy.
As a rebbie in local school thats not paying right now….
There are plenty of ways to spend time with your kids in the summer without spending a lot of money. Picnics in the park, visiting historic sites (many are free or very inexpensive, and your kids might learn something too!), even working together on projects at home.
Whatever you don’t pay for your children’s tuition, someone else has to. Would you collect door to door to pay for vacation?
I think parents have a #1 achrayus to pay their children’s tuition. I am not a current resident of Lakewood, but my children/grandchildren are. My current community’s day school/yeshiva tuition averages about $12,000 per child. I am amazed at how “reasonable” the tuitions are in LW yeshivos. Obviously, there is not a a lot of wiggle room for the LW school administrators to offer subsidies. My opinion is that parents who can’t immediately pay off their tuition take out a loan or commit to pay the fees well into the future if need be. I don’t begrudge a parent wanting to take children on a day trip or two. My own son took my grandson on a beautiful 5 mile bike ride – relaxing & spending quality time with the child – without spending any money. There are any number of cheap & free fun activities to do with kids.
While you are on vacation, whether you think you deserve it or not- many Rabbeim, teachers and school staff are home because they cant go on vacation or even pay their bills because parents like you dont pay their tuition because they need to go on vacations…..
We B”H have a large family, (our children are mostly married by now and not in school any more), but, we never went away in the summer or sent our kids to sleep away camp. We did send the younger children to day camp at least part of the summer (when day camps were mostly the back yard variety and not so expensive). My husband worked and I would take my kids to the parks around here, Wed have picnics, go to the county fair, etc. When my children were old enough, they took summer jobs either mother’s helper, or running their own day camps. My sons mowed people’s lawns (in the days when people didn’t all have lawn services to do that). They rode their bikes a lot, and went swimming. (We did put up our own backyard pool for the family enjoyment) I don’t think my kids were missing anything by not having all the hyped up fun that the camps provide nowadays. Life was simpler, pleasures were simpler. We still needed reduced tuition, but, no one could say we didn’t have it because we spent it on vacation.
At the current situation that the schools find themselves in. If anymore people bargain their tuition down from paying full. We might all find our selves spending more “quality time” with our kids at home. (As the school will close down…)
Did I teach your son this year ? I also have to pay for kids camps I also have to pay bills ……….
please explain why the schools should subsidize anyones extras at all-let alone vacations?
I beg to differ with #6. I have a working husband working his heads off but we struggle to keep up. We have balances in all our schools for tuition because it’s just not in our budget. No we did not go on vacation this year. Many Rabbeim have gone because they get a rebbe job and it covers the all expense paid vacation. Lucky them. From the other side of the fence a rebbe should know he doesn’t have it so bad. He doesn’t have to pay tuition, can get all the programs etc. Kol Hakovod to him, just don’t complain.
I think it depends on what you mean by vacation. There are luxuriously expensive vacations, or it can be an inexpensive getaway for a couple days which for some people help them function better and might be a necessity.
Vacations aside, what’s the outlook on daycamps?? I mean, daycamps are a HUGE expense, is it considered a luxury? Should people not send their kids unless their tuition is fully covered?
Be happy its only the vacation you have to worry about- I am behind on my car payments and all utility bills for the last 2 months while I pay up my tuition bills!! A vacation is the last thing I can consider, I’m basically only home on shabbos as well and a vacation is desperately needed, BUT I have no choice. I haven’t taken a vacation in years! I make do with a trip to the good ol lakewood lake to entertain the kids.
Staycation!!!!
#11: Why is it “not in your budget”???
– Are you eating tuna fish for Shabbos?
– Do you walk to the store?
– Do you wear hand me down clothing?
– Do you hand iron rather than sending out to the dry cleaner?
You may not be collecting door to door, but someone else is essentially doing so on your behalf since every dollar you don’t pay, the school has to fund raise for.
to#11 i own a store here in town and i am not a rebbe but i still dont know how u can talk like this for all the hours and effort that the special rebbeim here in lakewood put in to each child they get paid peanuts and thats if they get paid many rebbeim have not gotton paid and guess what they also hv bills to pay and vacation?? many of them don’t know what that word is as far as everybody else i am as i said earlier a store owner in town and as everybody knows a store owner is just rolling in it i dont know where to put it all but guess what this millionare didnt go on vacation not this year not the year b4 not 4 5 yrs already you know why because my sons rebbeim and thier bills come way b4 my vacation and u know what when i get eyh my kids married off and on thier own feet i hopefully will have then plenty of vacationing time just ask your parents if they are over 68 or your grandparents
To #16 when is there time to hand iron when both parents are working. Also how does walking to the store help. And where is the time when you don’t get home till late Sorry we don’t all have jobs that are local and end at 3:00
WellM you have to realize that the summer is also an essential part of Chinuch . Many parents often say , ” we don’t have money for camps etc, and leave their kids hanging . THEy don’t realize that that’s the best way to lose you children r’l . many children begin their journeys here in lkwd off the derech starting with the summe( some begin on purim) we’ll discuss that a diff time. But money fo camps, bungalo o simple vacation is simply NOT a luxury in this day n age. It prevents many a lady from having a nervous breakdown and will save lots of money for the future.
a vacation is ok go for a week and when you come back, then you’ll worry about rabbeim
I did not go on Vacation as if I would of taken my family there is no way I would be able to pay all my bills including Tuition.
Although I beleive evreyone needs to get a way for a few days.
With Hashems help next year Moshiach will come or at least lets hope we will all be able to pay our bills and go on Vacation for a few days.
Do you have money to pay for a cell phone? Do you spend money each month so your wife and children have cell phones? If so, you can not complain that you are just getting by with bare essentials and have to negotiate your schar limud bills.
If the average cell phone plan cost $40.00 a month, (many run much more) and you times that number by the # of Lakewood families (8,000) assuming each family has only one cell phone in it (most have more, since “keeping up with the Jonses” extends to the kids as well) you have a total cost of $320,000 per year on something that not only do 99% of people don’t need but really shouldn’t have for a variety of reasons.
$320,000 is more than the amount that Tomchei Shabbos spends in Lakewood for The Rosh Hashonna season. Tomchei Shabbos is in debt. The Yeshivos don’t get paid tuitions. The Rebbeim and teachers are underpaid and every single Father, Mother and teenage child has to own their own cell phone with monthly bills being paid on time.
Let’s be honest with ourselves. Our spending of money defines what’s important to us. Cell phones and all their perverseness is non negotiable. Tzedokah, Chinuch and basic fairness to people that provide essential services is less important. Time to do tshuva.
#18:
The question was about taking a vacation. If there’s time for a vacation, there’s time to iron.
What are you teaching your children. Your children were taught in these schools. They were kept warm during the winter and they had lights to see what they were being taught and the owners have bills to pay so that your children can learn. No one goes into business to not make money, and the owners of these schools deserve to get paid for services they supplied. Living within your means is a very valuable lesson to teach your children. No wonder this country is in the financial shape its in when people wonder if they should pay thier bills or go on vacation.
What does Daas Torah say?
What does the Vaad say?
Here’s another question: I have a choice between paying my property taxes, and my tuition. Should I give up my house for my child’s tuition? Because of course the Rabbeim are working so hard and they don’t even get paid. On the other hand, if I lose my house, and I need to sleep in the homeless area of town, maybe my child will get thrown out of school anyway, so it won’t make a difference.
Anyone can help please?
For some vacation is a Health issue and a must! It could be for some pikiach nafesh not to go, if the wife will get a breakdown by not going to vacation, the school will end up losing much more as all the money will be spend on doctors and help noting will be left to pay even the min. Tuition
we may end up needing to raise money for doctors expance etc.
I HAVE A DIFFERENT QUESTION
RE: Building Fund and Registration FEE every Year:
when paying you full Tuition why should we also have to pay EACH YEAR for a BUILDING FUND AND REGISTRATION FOR 4 KIDS????
your right about registration. why does reg fees keep on going up. does it cost that much extra the stamp?
That’s a whole other topic. Don’t get this public started on that because there will be NO end.
Your logic escapes me. The poor rabbeim also have cell phones as do many of their kids. You mention Tomchei Shabbos the people who work for the organization also use cell phones.
No it’s very important that he should take a vacation with the kids (for kids and the parents sake) now if the school didn’t take registration EVERY YEAR FOR EACH KID and BUILDING FUND EVERY YEAR then they could go on a vacation PERIOD!
registration should be for the first year only.
why should I pay for the school building ???? it’s a business and let the school work it out. why force the parents to pay ???
To #1. I’ve read ur opinion and respectfully strongly disagree. Lavu ulay veani poreia is referring to shabbos and only if u have from where to pay back. Look at tosfos and r bchai in shabbos. Borrowing $ with out a plan to payback is financially suicidal and asur al p din. An alternative for any necessity can possibly b done by collecting tzedaka and if going on vacation is a must we should find s/one sympathetic and sponsor the expense. Thank u
I was out of school for 8 months cause my parents had no $
and no we haven’t taken a vacation in years. Do you think it’s geshmak watching a parent on the verge of a nervous breakdown becasue the school won’t let you in?. You keep kvetching about how we teenagers act, look what you are teaching us. Please don’t moderate this out.
The fact is that due to the follow the herd mentallity many frum families are in a pickle.
Yes, you have to have bitochon but eizahu chacham haroya es hanolod.
Many families wait till its too late to realize the programs and your wife working can’t really support a family and if then you go out to work and end up in a starting job you might actually be earning less then on the programs.
Start early before you have tons of kids so you are established in a career or buisness (hopefully not running a ponzi sceam or in jail) before the big expenses come in.