VIDEO: [UPDATED] Rav Eliyashiv Shlita this week was asked about the issue of Mishulachim collecting Tzedakah during davening, and the issues which arrise from the daily occurrence in many Batei Midrashim world-wide.
On behalf of Lakewood’s Tomchei Tzedakah, the Posek was asked the following questions:
Must one give a Meshulach who is collecting during Krias Shema? Can we stop the Meshulachim from collecting? Can Lakewood make their giving an ishur contingent on the Meshulach agreeing that he will not collect during Kriyas Shema? How about during Birchas Kriyas Shema?
See the video for the conversation, in Yiddish. TLS.
For those who can’t view the YouTube vide, see the Vimeo video underneath.
whats the psak? – cant view the video
What’s the Pesak?
Psak is they are not allowed
psak was you can prevent them
Baruch Hashem. It is so great to see Maran Harav Shlit”a answering shailos. One thought did cross my mind while watching these questions. I would love to hear from the Oilam whether I am off base with this. Shouldn’t we be seeing signs all over the place that people should not be looking at their phones or Blackberries during davening??? Maybe even a major campaign about distactions during Tefillah and learning. Why are we becoming frum and more zahir all of a sudden when it comes to meshulachim??
what about chazoras hashtz and during kadish??
i can view the video. rav elyashiv shlita clealry says that meshulochim should NOT be collecting during krias shma nor during birchos krias shma and that the vaad can indeed make the issuance of an Isshur tied to the meshulach agreeing to abide by this condition.
personally i find psukei d’zimrah to be a big problem. i would have wanted that asked as well.
We see clearly from this video that the answer depends on how the question is asked. When one hears of a psak from R. Elyashiv Shlita, one must know if the question was asked properly and if the answer was understood.
Besides, I think it’s irresponsible to bother the 102 year old gadol hador (ad bias goel) with such trivial shailos. Any competent rov in Lakewood can answer that question. It’s not a shailas iguna.
to #4:
there are many apps nowadays that are relevant to davening and learning including siddur, tehillim, chumash, mishnayos so please take a look before assuming that people are doing something wrong.
maran haposek hador paskened that its ok for the vaad to issue the issur to collect betnay that meshulach wont collect during birkas krias shama/shama itself =from boruch hu until chazaros hashatz
actually this was the policy in the famous bnai yehuda shul in BP where harav kirzner ztl was rav {a sign was posted in the shul att all meshulochim it is forbidden to collect tzedoka from boruch hu until after kedusha}r
In response to Just Wondering “Why are we becoming frum and more zahir all of a sudden when it comes to meshulachim??”
You are correct; a person using his Blackberry during krias shema should give meshulachim too (watch the video – I think that’s clear).
But for most people, that are davening during davening, the meshulachim are a disturbance that should be stopped, asMaran paskened.
Notice how the questioneer decided on his own that prior to Birchas Krias Shema is not part of the discussion. I would love to see his qualifications!
and the sefardishe shul as well……….
Did he give a psak that the oilam should give enough money at their door that the mishulochim should be able to daven too, instead of collecting by davening?
#8,
You’re 100% right on both points.
I heard from Reb Meir Soloveitchik Shli”ta, “Daas Toirah iz in de hent fun de Askonim. Zay fregen de shayloh lifee de terutz vos zay villen.”
On your second point as well, why do you have to tchepper Rav Eliashiv Shli”ta with this stuff? If you don’t want to be bothered during these times, do what I do. Ignore them!
We can do what is done in many Williamsberg shuls, u just leave quarters near your tallis bag & let them take it themselves, so it doesn’t bother your kavanos
I want to take this point of collecting in shul a little further and that is on any given day there are van loads of meshulachim coming into Lakewood in the am hours to collect funds. And here is where the problem is, you have 5 or 6 meshulachim sharing a van all chipping in to an exhorbant amount of money that these drivers take. And so when these meshulachim barge ….. yes barge into the bais hamedrash this is what’s on their mind they have to get as many guys in shul before the other two guys who are walking around tap these guys. Then they are thinking about the other 2 or 3 guys in the other minyan (from the same van) that will be in this minyan soon and make it harder for them to keep going around. And then they are trying to get the next shul and the next shul all in 2 or 3 hours with navigating Lakewood am traffic . The drivers usually have all times of the the big minyanim and have the whole route planned out. Bottom line these meshulachim are under such pressure to make a few dollars in such a small time frame and while I sincerely are sympathetic to their situation it is 100% wrong the way in which they barge into shul and come right up to your face muttering a few words and if you have your talis over your head and are not aware of them coming over to you, you could totally get so disturbed and forget where you are up to. Meshulachim coming into shul ever py morning in the manner they do needs to be stopped – end of story.
@Ilovelakewood Actually its ossvr Midioroysa to send a poor man away empty handed! To find out when and how this apples speak to your local orthodox Rabbi.
Rabboisai! What is this “ignore them” and “don’t give them” when talking about meshulachim? Who exactly is THEM? THEY are you! Your brothers. Part of your Klal Yisroel. So Hashem gave YOU enough money so you do not have to go 5000 miles away from your wife and children on Chanukah? Be thankful! Thankful that for right now YOU are the giver. Yes, sometimes it gets frustrating trying to daven while someone is soliciting every few minutes. But that is YOUR nisayon. To try to get past that. Think for a second how much more frustrating it might be to cry each night after Chanukah licht because you miss your family, your daughter is getting marries in a few weeks and you have no idea how you will pay for the chasuna. Think about it.
if you text and email on your phone during davening so why not help your fellow brothers in need to ???
I have a question related to this topic. Is it OK for the same meshulachim to come to your door more than once? That’s been happening recently at my house. I don’t give a lot, but I give something to everyone that comes. I feel just a little awkward when the same person (or 2, 3 or 4 people) come to my house just a few days or a week after they were here. Of course, I pretend I’ve never seen them before. I’m actually a little ashamed of my awkwardness. What is bothering me? Giving the same person/people more? Or that it seems a little brazen to come more than once. Whenever I have that shameful feeling, I ask myself “how many times do you keep going back to Hashem and asking for his help or forgiveness”. How would you like it if Hashem would say (kaviyachol) “Oh, its you again. You were just here last week”. Go away until next year.
Maybe its just that, with money being tight these days and every Yid wants to help as many people as he can, it sometimes feels like you just can’t keep up with the awesome needs. Anyone have an eitzah? Is my Hashkafa just messed up on this?
Make believe u were in their shoes -lo alienu
We must help every yid & create a system that’s conducive to davening too
yidden are supposed to be rachmonim! where is your rachmones on these meshulochim? in satmer yeshivos every single bochur has to have a turn going around by the minyonim to collect, so one day when he is solicited, he should know the shame and open his heart and pocket! all you groise daveners, have you ever gone collecting? have you ever had the shame of needing one of these sdom tzetelach? what are we coming to?
i am torn on this issue of the overburdening of meshulachim, on one hand there are so many of them and i am not a rich man and struggle myself to pay bills so when i am aproached or sometimes bombarded in shul i first get a little annoyed and even angry, on the other hand it is one of the biggest mitzvas a person can do so how in my right mind can i get upset or turn down a poor yid. so personally i came up with a solution. if a meshuluch aproaches me and he appears under the age of 50 no matter what his ishur says is the reason he needs the money, i ask him if he lost his job? if a yid does his hishtadlus and hashem decides he must work harder and demean himself then it is my honor to give him whatever i can afford even soemtimes 20$ however if a 25-30 year old man is collecting for his 6 kids and his rent and he never worked a day in his life i believe it is assur for him to put his burden on us “rich americans” who are struggling ourselves!! get a job or at least try and if you fail then i will be glad to help i have no doubt the rambam and many of the rishonim and poskim all would pasken if a person has a family and never did any hishyadlus he can not burden the people who did thier hishtadlus and still need the help
Proud orthodox Jew -No it’s not. Where did you pick this one up from?
Tell me your address -I’ll come a thousand times a day.
I did hear either B’shem Rav Elashiv or the Steipler’s son -don’t remember which -that if you open the door when they are at your front door -then you have to give.
#24 go look at the shulchan aruch and nosei keilim in hilchos tzedaka where it is written that it is ossur to tell someone soliciting tzedaka “why don’t you just get a job”- even an able bodied and capable individual. before making assumption about what the rambam and rishonim would say, learn the halacha!
to number 24. To get a job in israel means to be called up for army service and it is well known that the secular parts of the medina are full of many that want to undue yittishkeit. Army service can be worse than unfiltered internet, especcially when one is forced to serve with females soilders. The yeshivas offer no practicle job training so exactly what job would you have them seek? It is not that much better here in america where there are no jobs for someone with a large family. (can you support 10 people on $12/hr with no hud???
oy. we need moshiach
@Help us: You sound just like my yetzer hara: “You did this thing wrong, so what’s the big deal if you do this next thing wrong?”
I didnt notice in the video if the Rav shlita paskened it is muttar to upload this encounter to youtube to be mifarseim this psak.
Proud,
Oh, so it’s ossur to ignore a meshulach? Aha! So what do you do instead? You ask Rav Eliyashev to ban the from your shul during certain times! You’re lighting the candle at both ends, pal
Ow and then it was mamesh very important to send in a picture of the askonim asking the shilah to the Rav to the scoop along with the psak
For shame
None of thse people in th video are americans or lakewooders. What’s the connection here with lakewood tzedaka?
the main reason cwhy a meshulach collects in the middle of davening is cause when youre davening youre there, but if the meshulach would just stand by the door you would must likely pass him without giving him anything… so if you guys dont want to give tzedaka then make it impossible for the meshulach to ask you at all
Help! help! help!
Where is the seichel?
Must we turn every little question into a quandary of international proportions, and send someone to E”Y to bother the Gadol Hador?
I hope the Lakewood poskim are not insulted…