As the Yom Ha’Din approaches, an Asifa for Rabbonim will be held in Lakewood this evening to address several pressing issues which are in need of Chizuk throughout Lakewood, a letter states.
The issues to be discussed, include Nisyonos Lakewood (and other) children face in today’s generation making it more and more difficult to prevent children from falling through the cracks.
Additionally, Rabbonim will be addressing the issue of Pritzus clothing being sold in Lakewood, making it difficult for shoppers to find Kosher clothing, the letter states.
Attending the Asifa, will be renowned Rabbonim and Admorim from both Lakewood and Boro Park. [TLS]
About time Lets see a real change please. We had eough of these people coming to our town & changing the way Frum people have dressed for ages here. The people that dress improperly are a new thing about 10 yrs in the making & nobody does anything about it!
I have been in local stores shopping lately and am saddened by the selection of clothing. I consider myself fashionable, and I frequent stores in the City as well, ie, Saks, Bergorf Goodman, Bloomingdales. I am deeply saddened by the clothes that are available in the local Jewish stores. The clothes are inappropriate for frum girls/ladies. This also makes it harder to shop for teens, as they think these clothes are permissible since they are being sold by frum vendors.
To #1 “Hack-Nisht-In-Kup-Arein” I have news for you…. as someone who has been living here for almost 30 years (35 if you include Yeshiva), it is people like you who are “coming to our town & changing the way Frum people have dressed for ages here”. My kids even went on mixed school buses here in Lakewood to go to Cheder… just to set the record straight..
Question; if we start with the foundation wouldn’t it be harder for these nisyonos to seep into our surroundings?
I would think a strong foundation would be Midds Tovos and Emes in all our dealings and not c”v promoting Sheker.
What’s the 3rd point referring to?
Lets all get together & show that we wont tolerate this anymore. Why do we all stand by idly while people from our own comunity tear away from basic Halacha re: Tznius & make the nisyonos greater for us than we already have to deal with. This is not what Reb Ahron & Reb Shneur had in mind for us when choosing a town away from the city life & all that comes with it. If someone wants to be oiver halachos why do it Birabim & be machshil others? Would any community stand for it if people would come in & destroy their communitys landscape or other shared interests. So why do we stand for it when they are destroyingt basic tennets of what makes up a frum yid?
#3
Wondering myself. Looks like some sort of new thing we will have an asifa for in upcoming months. Didnt hit the market yet. Time for another Citifeild, I enjoyed the last one & it was a great Chizuk to me!
I’m proudly not fashionable. My fashion sense went out the window when I continued to wear suits for shabbos after the advent of the sweater set. Now, I can’t find a Shabbos suit to replace my old one. So maybe someone can bring back the suit for Shabbos so that we can all be dressed like the princesses we are, instead of having to walk into a store and ask the clerk, “is this for Shabbos or weekday” and having them reply, “both!!!”
If you treat people with middos, menchlechkeit, and show them that its more important to live with emes rather than make another dollar, you wont have kids being turned off and looking for other ways to be noticed for example through clothing and when they grow up they to will live such a life with tzinus.
TO #3
IM ALSO HERE FOR 35 YEARS & YOU ARE FULL OF LIES!
THATS NOT THE WAY LAKEWOOD WAS SET IN REB AHRON & REB SHNEURS TIMES. AND THEY WERE MARA DIASRA! PERIOD!!!
YOU & YOUR GROUP WERE & DEFINETELY BY NOW ARE THE MINORITY!
LOOK WHAT LASTED YOUR GROUP OR THE BEUTIFULL YESHIVA OILOUM HERE?!
Why should Boro Park come to Lakewood? Their are many concerns we have as a frum community. Not everyone is perfect and we all try. Aren’t we suppose to give everyone the benefit of the doubt? What about the guys that talk in shul, or drivers that don’t stop for pedestrians or keep cholov stam? It’s Elul and were busy enough just trying to focus at the peas on our plate. There’s plenty of guilt to go around on both sides of ladies and men. Maybe guard your eyes as well as your mouth.
#10: In the Yeshiva 35 years ago we also learned Mussar… I suggest you still do that and stop shouting and calling people liars. Now, to the point… what were the lies? Are you saying that we didn’t have mixed school buses for boys and girls 25 years ago? Well, we did.. Are you saying that the women all wore black and white 25 and 30 years ago here in the Yeshiva community? Well, they didn’t….
I am not sure what “YOU & YOUR GROUP” you are referring to, but I don’t think I am a minority… just ask any of the old time Lakewooders and we will be glad to tell you.
To steve and fullbagger:
Get off your soap box!! This is about 1 issue and 1 issue only. This is a big problem that a woman who want to dress al pi Halacha has no where to shop and no clothes to buy. They’ve spoken about this before. Hopefully this meeting could yield some results.
many many seforim talk about the fact that when you buy food with “Treif money” is metamtem es halev just like real treifos and timtum halev has a impact on the children……..its time the rabbonim talk about ehrlichkeit in money…..which is BTW one of the questions that will be asked after 120, not where was your skirt etc
To Torah Truth! a) I was in the Cheder 34 years ago and the buses were not mixed. b) in the old days if a yeshiva woman wore something that was considered “modern” even if it was “100% kosher” she would get a call from the rebbitzen not to wear that item again. We don’t need to look so far back even 10 year back the tznius was on a much higher level.
why dont we focus on the root of the problem!? let us work on the cause, our lack of emunah pshuta before we focus on the effect. we arent looking for a temporary fix!
#34, all I can say is that you were either not in the Cheder 34 years ago, or you don’t remember… ask some of your friends..
I mean #15
While you are 100% right that there should be an emphasis on ehrlechkeit with money, that does not make this a non problem. This issue of the lack of tznius is a big problem which needs to be dealt with. And yes, if a woman does not dress tznius and especially if they are machshil others, they will have to give a din v’cheshbon for that after 120. Tznius is a halacha, not a nice thing to do if you want.
to # 12 Are you blinded by money also, We just read torah which says Shochad (money)it can even blind tzadikim. I am just stating a way possibly to prevent the problem of tzinus from even beginning.
Can someone please show Hack-Nisht-In-Kup-Arein how to turn off his CAP Locks?!
#19
I think #14 was trying to make the point that since there are so many equally important issues and problems to be dealt with, why does tznius get all the attention while some other issues seem to be much less popular and get ignored.
One thing’s for sure – many people in our community find it easier to be extra machmir in bein adam l’makom vs. bein adam l’chaveiro. But if our intent is l’shma and not self-fulfillment, shouldn’t all issues be equally important?
Yes we should strive to improve tznuis. I just want to point out ashrecha for klal yisroel as a whole. Over the past 80 years we have grown tremoundsly in the area of tznuis in the USA (and even certain parts of Europe.) We need not worry about mechitzas by simchos, women wearing short sleevs or sleeveless etc..We are the best we have been in years while the world just gets worse. Lets keep up the good work and grow further.
for the third item on the list. It was already signed into law yesterday by Christie.
For Starters most people do dress tznius
most stores work very hard to provide our community with tzius clothing
I won’t coment about womens tznius
It is an important and sensitive topic
Leave that to the pros
I would like to comment about mens style
men need tznius too
from tight pants to flashy socks
from giving too much attention to horribly clad bike riders
glasses hats
the list goes on and on
what was once considreder purim wear is normal wear
a little self-respect
my 2 cents
I have no idea how to fix this issiue
most people
We are being tested b/c midda kenagad midda. We put so much emphasis on nariskitin like does the father wear a white shirt or a colored in order for a child to get into a school!!!! don’t think that the cries and tears that these parents and children cry don’t have a roshem. Far be it for me to tell you this is the chesbon but it makes you wonder???
I say we all wear kapatas and streimels
1.) If stores are only carrying clothing you don’t approve of ,it is because that is what people are buying. People own stores to sell stuff that people want and make money. The question you should be asking is why people don’t take you seriously when you tell them how they should dress. Not crying about the fact that stores are carrying things you don’t like.
2.) Good luck on the second thing.
3.) no comment on this one either…
A man is allowed to wear “flashy” socks. This is not an issue. Sorry.
Most kids go off the derech because stores in Lakewood sell clothing that isn’t tznius.
Not on soap box lol, don’t understand why rabbonim from Brooklyn have to come down, can’t we as a kehila figure it out?
I would like to quote my grandmother a”h: “ICH BIN NICHT G-TT’S POLIZEI! ”
wouldnt the world be a better, happier and calmer place if we were all to worry about ourselves and our immediate family members and only be concerned with honesty in business, mentschlichkeit, helping others and living besimcha?
why is it that everybody thinks they have a right to judge and pass sentence on every individual around them whom they consider not to be following halachah according to their own personal interpretation?
and my biggest question is why is everything the fault of women and their tznius concerns? ……..
@Londener, who appointed you the “honesty in business” police?
To TorahTruth et al:
I was in the (moderated) 40-some years ago and not only the buses were mixed, the classes were mixed too!
listen londoner,it becomes a prob when a woman is machshil other men. women are royalty but dont dress like it. just take for example the new princess who as a goya was brought up with no concept of tznius but as she became princess had to dress more refined.more refined than some lakewooders….
well said Londoner!
To Number 8:
The old style womes suits were more expensive than todays style. We just need to buy bigger sizes. It is no shame for a women who wore a size 4 in days gone by and though she is physically the same size today she needs to buy a Size 8. If she is today a bit larger she may need a Size 10or 12. I for one (mid 60s) have no desire to go back to the less versatile and more expensive suits.
An outift is shabbosdik if you make it so even if others wear it for weekdays.
So many issues to discuss eg. ואהבת לרעך כמוך….. Etc why is always tznias the issue??????? So many other problems….why to always put everything on the women shoulder????????
Because Tznius is a big issue Thats Why!!
Because there is NO HETER to dress immodestly & be Machshil people Thats Why!!!
Because U should be proud to be Tzniusdik Thats Why!!!
Because Hashem leaves us when we arent Tzniusdick Tahts Why!!!
And many more good reasons
And if U keep Tznius Tznius will keep you Happy Healthy & Wealthy. Try it & you will be forever greatfull
THATS WHY!!!!!!!
When problems like Middos and Sheker become norm and are encouraged, things done bein adom lechavaro and Btzina,people loose busha for aveiros then they go and be machshil people Befarhesya.
It’s interesting to note how over the years in America the levels of shmiras himitzvos in general has gone up, but so has the gashmius. Everyone needs fancy houses cars jobs clothing schools etc. And without a question the general mentchlechkeit and decency has dropped. The passed generations in America were less snobby and stuck up which could explain why they took to enhancing their Judaism the way they did.
People did not freak out if someone in their kids class wasn’t exactly the way their kid was, or that they can’t live on a block that doesn’t have their friends they grew up with. Society in general has become much more egotistical, self centered and selfish.
If you want to live in a functional society people need to A) care about how their personal lives effect the public and B) judge people favorably, with a good eye in general.
Years ago, people were more decent – ask any oldster. You were embarrassed to do something that the kehila would frown on, and people were sensible. If someone grumbled about so and so, the average person would say, well you need to understand….so beautiful.
In my experience I find this to some extant in certain ‘out of town’ communities. Although the ‘in town’ communities often times out pace them in Torah knowledge, the old school decency and sense of community is a notch or two higher. I wonder what Hashem prefers?
I just asked my choshuva husband if he noticed any ladies at the COOP that were not dressed properly. He said no. You know why? Because he is looking at the shopping list and looking for the groceries. He is not looking at the ladies.
I am not saying we need some way to show women the importance of tznius (in a gentle manner). However, there is no that a lot of the problem is that the men are too busy looking!
rebbitzen 42, if u were walkin down the street and there was a dead rat on the floor, would u not notice it? of course u would!! were u lookin for dead rats? no! but the eyes see more then what ur just lookin at. eyes see thing even if ur not focousing on something. Im sure if ur husband was lookin at his shopping list and a kid was crawling on the floor he would walk around him, so dont you think if someones clothing is flashy or not proper that inadvertenly your husbands eyes would register that sight??? U dont hv to LOOK for s/t improper to see it.
I am so happy that there are people like you whose priorities are so straight and who are focusing on the important parts of tznius and kavod shabbos. Why of course you shouldn’t change your style just because fashion changes. You should stick to your Shabbos suits like they wore in times of the Bais Hamikdosh! Kol Hakovod. Just keep on focusing on the chitzonius issues and the world will be a better place. … NOT
To #1-#43
The topics at hand are 1-saving our fellow Jews from going off the דרך and 2- addressing the issue of priztus.
The Rabbonim would like to focus on this issue, not any causes for it or any other issue. Also, they aren’t suggesting that this the only issue we need to deal with or the only reason for this specific issue.
Also, the major “pritzus” problem is the way people- dress lacking lots and lots of tznius- and also being machshil everyone who sees them, whether done/seen on purpose or by mistake.
(by the way, there is such a thing as tznius for men although not as strict as tznius for a woman).
Now, the problem is two fold. One, the stores aren’t selling nice, fashionable, tznius clothing. Two, women aren’t covering what they’re supposed to, and everything else that comes with tznius of dress (this could be a result of the ladies not knowing what is halahca and what is chumrah).
The stores sell what people buy, and people buy whatever the stores carry! So, if the stores carry nice, fashionable, tznius clothing, people will buy it. However, if they carry whatever the non-Jewish stores carry, plus $10-20 increase in price, that’s what the Jews will be left to buy.
Furthermore, if the stores carry just the tznius stuff and promote tznius (vs. saying that everything looks good on the customer. suggesting a different style or size is not the end of the world. not everything looks good on everyone!) perhaps that’s what everyone will buy!
Also, we all know, החיצוניות מעוררת את הפנימיות! We can do an action on the outside and it can awaken us on the inside. This can cause us to WANT the new change.
May we all be זוכה to change our actions/dress and have a כתיבה וחתימה טובה and a גוט געבענשט יאר!
wow! what a novel Idea!
a tznius lecture.
why havent we thought of this before?
btw I have been to these tznius lectures and have noticed two things:
1 – all the people attending are very tzniusdig.
2- the people who need the lecture are nowhere to be seen.
so maybe someone can figure out how to get the second category to attend…
To Rebetzen (cough)
So I guess you take your husband to the beach in middle of the summer for bain hazmanim break cause you dont have to worry that he might see s/t pritzusdik HUUUUUUUUUUU?