I am a Lakewood resident, family of 6, who has a job and earn around $41,000 a year. My wife makes approximately $20,000 a year. After saving up money for a down payment, we purchased a home.
I pay about $9,000 a year in property taxes, and about $6,000 gets deducted from my pay-check for taxes. My job does not give me benefits, and Ido not receive medical insurance.
Since we have children under the age of 18, we were eligible for a 24 – month extension of Medicaid health benefits. Now that my 24 months are up, I started looking at my possibilities for medical insurance. It seems that for $1,600 a month, I can get coverage for myself and my wife, and my children will continue to be eligible for Medicaid.
I was doing the math, it will be cheaper for my wife to quit her job and be a stay-at-home-mom, than go work. If I were to stay at my job and stay under the $42,015 a year bracket, myself and family would receive Medicaid and Jersey care for my whole family and would be losing only $800 a year.
Does it make sense for my wife to go work?
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No way
unless you have serious health issues there is no reason to get such an expansive health care plan
what may be a god idea is for your wife to train in something that would bring in more than 20k. If you are eligible, some trainings are free. Expenses are only going to become higher. For example, a course to become proficient in a specific technology may take a few intense months but then may pay around 35 to 40 per hour. Then one can get insurance through the company that hires her.
NOTHING MAKES SENSE ANYMORE
If you make $60,000 and have $6 kids, you definitely should not be paying $6,000 in taxes. You probably have $0 tax liability. Speak to your accountant.
This Logic is very short sighted. What you are proposing is getting stuck in a lifestyle of poverty. You will never be able to overcome your current condition if you remain dependent on social services.
Rather, you and your wife come up with ways to increase your earnings to a point where social services are no longer necessary. I’m not suggesting this will be easy, but it sure beats the dead end you’re advocating.
Hatzlacha Roba!
Except that I can’t even save up for a down payment
i made that chesbon years ago. dont forget all the other programs you are eligible for at 42k a year such as foodstamps etc. which could make up that $800 a month right there. thats besides WIC, HUD, earned income credits, HEAP, USF, child care,etc. It seems that unless your making over 100k a year you might as well make 40k with programs. But its sad that we have to live like this to be forced not to make $. You become stiffled for life and can never grow finacially. The whole system creates more poverty as it forces people not to work or to work less hours and rely on the govt. We need to petition the govt. to change the guidlines of these programs to give people an incentive to become financilly indepent.
We also need to get back our pride at being hard working, self supporting people. Some times even if it dosent make sense financially its worth our pride to know we are providing for our families ourselves and dont need any help.
So enjoy the free money while it helps you but be careful not to fall into the trap of being stuck on the govt. payroll which is hard to get out of. and maybe if you try on your own you might actually one day be making more money than the programs provide but you will never know until you take the plunge and try.
it doesnt make sense to work = socialism!
Why not have no health insurance for yourselves or a very inexpensive one that doesn’t fulfill what Obama requires. Then you will still have your wife’s salary to live off of. The fee for not having insurance is much cheaper than the cost of insurance.
Also, I thought Obamacare subsidizes insurance for low income families. Have you checked if you’d be eligible for subsidies?
“…I pay about $9,000 a year in property taxes…” And what do you get for those high taxes? Other states have much lower property taxes. Why is it so high in NJ? Oh, I forgot – in NJ anyone who gets elected then hires his/her relatives, friends, etc. to high paying, no-show jobs which someone has to pay for.
Take out 2 separate plans. 1 for yourself and 1 for your wife – should be cheaper. You can also get a cheaper plan for yourself and more expensive one for your wife. Shop around.
Bacically, what you are saying is that eveyone else (the taxpayers} shoulld pay for your medical insurance instead of your wife working and paying for your medical insurance. Dont you think there is something wrong with that? I,for one, do not want to pay for your medical insurance while your wife gets to stay at home.
$1600 for insurance is a bit pricy, but yes this would sound like the right calculations.
Hey, don’t forget to apply for WIC, food stamps & section 8…
It really PAYS not to work!
You pay $9000 a year in taxs? At that tax rate what type of mansion are you living in and how can you afford the payment when you only may $40k?
I make about 115k a year, my wife 60k and I am contemplating not working. I work 10-12 hours a day 5-6 days a week. Why shouldn’t I sit back and let some one else work for me?
What’s gonna happen when you need to make a wedding etc. there is no government program for that!! Stick it out in the workplace & hopefully you’ll both see an increase in your wages!
a family of six in a home that carries a tax rate of $9000 sounds very excessive. I wonder how you were able to save up and purchase a home of that size while only earning $41,000 a year? sounds like there is something missing from this equation. Is that the same safety net that you are depending on to pay for larger expenses later in life of for g-d forbid any emergency?
work and contribute to society. speak to your accountant you should be getting a tax refund.
Sadly, there are many people who have made this cheshbon yrs ago & have not gone to work. Making it harder for the rest of us. Truthfully, a guy may be ready to leave kollel after learning x amount of years but finds its not worth it due to his program loss. Also, post # 5, about ur W4 is right. Your family has 8 dependants x $6,250/ea = $50,000 + $9,000 in property taxes, all deductable. So u paid $6,000 in taxes on $2,000 of taxable income. You gotta start using Kanarek & Co. as ur CPA. Thats who i use. They’re awesome !!
The issue with the programs is that while your children are young you will manage pretty well, but what happens when they get older and then A- you need to make 6+ weddings and B- when they leave home and all you programs are slashed. Being left with out a source of income i.e trade, profession is defiantly not a safe answer
Taxes of about 10% sounds right. That’s Social Security, State & unemployment & disability (which you are required to pay whether you want to or not!), and no Federal taxes, so there’s not much an accountant can do for you. Possibly your employer can pay for your health insurance and child care before taxes.
THERE ARE NO CHEAP INSURANCE PLANS! Even a very high deductible plan is costing me well over $1600.
welcome to lkwd! many girls i know earned their degrees when they were single, but once they moved to lkwd, it just wasnt worth it, and being a babysitter at home while being on all the programs just came out more worth it…its really a crazy world!
People, do you seriously think someone has to live in a “mansion” to accru a $9000/yr tax bill? If this person with 8 members of his family is living in a regular 5 bedroom Lakewood townhouse that is how much taxes cost. With 6 children, would anyone expect them to be living in a shoe box?
The personal exemption in 2013 is $3,900, not $6,250. So your calculation is wrong. But he probably has very little or $0 tax liability in any case.
i cant understand people saying “why should i support you” etc. we are a drop of a drop of a drop in the bucket when in comes to programs be happy another yid is getting something for all your taxes and not some govt official taking on a tenth job to bilk the system
I pay $4000 property taxes in Coventry!! Time for a new BOE!
Just out of curiosity, how much tuition are you paying for your 6 kids? Or is that being subsidized by the other parents in the school?
Agree with #13,why should I pay for you to get social services while I have to work and pay my own insurance? I also have property taxes, property insurance,car insurance and pay towards my health insurance My wife also works and would love to be home but we know in today’s economy it doesn’t work that way. I don’t make a large salary but I can’t get help paying my bills Finding a lot of people in Lakewood think they should have things handed to them. Plan for the future, it’s not going to get better unless you do something for yourself and family. Stop depending on the government.
Unfortunately the sad reality is that women make so little money that if they have to start paying insurance it doesn’t pay to work. It’s a catch 2020. We live in an America where you can’t be middle class because they have to work, pay high taxes and pay insurance. Unfortunately it pays to be poor and get the programs. I see my middle class parents suffering from making weddings (even though there was a decent income and they do no spend excessively). Someone should come up with a way that it pays for more people to work and less people to be lazy or make calculations to be on programs. Being that we are jewish tuitions for a family of 5 can easily exceed $2500.
Unfortunately but for a Yiddish family of 8-10 you have to make over $100,000 just to get by.
Paying $9,000 a year in property tax is normal in NJ if you purchase a new home. However most new homes come with legal basements that can be rented and used for mortgage payments.
I know how you feel. I make about $220,000 per year, which would technically mean I’m “wealthy.” But to make that much I have to work 60 hours per week and it took me many years of very hard work to get to where I am. After you calculate all the taxes, about $100,000 goes to the government. Another $35,000 to tuition, $12,000 to health insurance and about $12,000 for maaser/tzedaka. That leaves $60,000 for paying for all other expenses (housing, saving, food etc). If I made $40,000 and sent my kids to public school (which isn’t an option) and got on programs, the difference in my disposable income would ony amount to about $20,000 less than I have now.
For that extra $20,000 I had to give up years of my life to very hard work and all but miss my children growing up. Just think, I’m part of the 1% of income earners that the Occupy Wall Street folks are protesting against, getting “rich” by taking advantage of the poor (as they see it). What a country.
Get ready for higher property taxes with the new BOE.
What does the BOE have to do with this article ?Well taxes could be less if we didn’t have to run so many busses. No children in school,living on a fixed income , do you hear me complaining. Taxes are part of life, someone had to do it.
depressing topic. i feel your pain. After 23 years in the workforce hustling and trying a few different careers, I still make very little money and my husband who works hard as well also makes a fairly pathetic amount. Just enough to be middle class and not get eligible for programs. But at least I have my self respect. I know i am not one of the moochers..
I too am a bit puzzled by the $9000 property tax bill. I am a female lakewood resident and I make six figures plus. I work very hard and give up spending much time with my children to support our family of six (two parents and four children). I live in a house, which is by the way the most expensive house that we could afford, with property taxes at $4,500. We have two cars one which I use to commute to work every day that has 220,000 miles and another car which is a minivan that is quite old and we fondly refer to it as our “Jalopy”. I often look around at society and wonder at the excess and at the epedemic of people living well beyond their means. People that buy half million dollar homes and then bemoan that they can’t make ends meet, can’t make the tuition payments etc. I don’t know what peoples personal income statement look like so really I shouldn’t be thinking about other people’s spending habits, but quite frankly I know how much I make and how far that gets me (not far at all, just covers the basics and leaves no room for luxuries) and I wonder how other people manage to buy such houses, cars, clothing. I honestly am not envious because when I go to bed at night I know that baruch hashem because I’ve made conservative spending decisions I can pay my bills.
This guy is not suggesting that he is deathly poor, he is simply asking if it is worth it for his wife to continue working. there is no sane reason he should not live comfortably in his 5 bedroom house with 8 family members, just because its more financialy sane for his wife to stay home. If you find it unfair that someone getting programs lives in such a large home, take that up with those who created the elligibilty standards. He’s allowed to take advantage of what is being offered.
Reading this post and all the comments really gets my blood boiling. My husband KILLS himself working 4 (yes 4 – I kid you not) jobs and I work part time (so I can be home when my kids get home from school) at a fairly well paying (by Lakewood standards) office job and we are barely scraping by. We live in a small 40 year old house which was all we could afford to buy. Of course we are not eligible for programs because we are in the wonderful “working poor” middle class that is being choked to death. I look around at these new construction houses being snatched up faster than they can be built and I wonder what the secret is that I have yet to figure out. so often those moving into these houses are young couples where the husband is in yeshiva and the wife teaches or maybe even works in a “well paying office job”. Even if the husband and wife are working how can anyone possible afford that? On a combined salary of $60k and a family of 8 how in the world can you pay all your bills (food, rent, tuition, utilities, insurance) and still have enough left over to save money for a down payment on a 5 bedroom townhouse. How in the world is this possible? Never mind the $100k down payment but a $3,000 plus mortgage every month…..It boggles my mind. I am not begrudging anyone who buys one of these $500k houses I just wish they would let me in on the secret. We KILLED ourselves to get into out 1,500 square foot house and that’s with both of us working at decent jobs, and paying all our bills on time and trying our best to be independent and live honestly and do what is right. What am I missing? What am I doing wrong and how can I be in on this little secret which would allow us to live like so many in this town with hardly lifting a finger?
maskim
On principal, the question being asked here is it worth it for his wife to continue to waste time and energy on a job outside of being a mother and allow babysitters and Morahs to watch her children grow up, or should she stay home with her children. I cannot imagine that the answer to this question on a hashgafic level is not 100% clear. Yet still, others want to extol the value of making money. What has happened to our value system? Is a wife and mother only as valuable as how much money she can bring in?
the secret is rich shver
#39
The answer can be very simple.
(1) Many people had good jobs and did put away money for a down payment for a house when they were able to, and now do not have the same jobs they did then.
(2) Some parents or grandparents may be able to help a child financially with a down payment for a house knowing that this will give them a roof over their head for many years to come, but for day to day basis they cannot afford to help their children,
So let’s do math; a $500,000 house needs %2o down payment, = $80,000.
If you have a single girl that worked for 3 years before she got married and put away 30K, and you have parents or grandparents from each side that can give 15K each side, and the couple after a few years managed to put away another 20K then it is doable.
Now purchasing a Brand new home that will not need any big investments right after you purchase it, as opposed to a old house is a question you have to ask yourself if it is worth it. I personally believe that yes.
Now most new houses for $500K have a rentable basement that helps cover your mortgage payments.
you are obviously completely out of touch with reality. most mothers (myself included) given the choice will choose not to work and stay home to raise their children instead. However in this day and age it is just about impossible. Unless you are receiving outside support a dual income is the only way you have a shot at maybe getting by. I am happy for you that you obviously have someone else paying your bills (i.e. Obama – meaning me, a hardworking taxpayer, or a rich daddy) but not everyone else is so lucky. Some of us actually MUST work to put a roof over our heads. It has nothing to do with our value system in that respect. What messes up our value system is lying and cheating to get the programs so we don’t have to work, mooching off the government and then crying poverty when we can’t marry off our children. Not THAT’S messed up values. On a side note, there is nothing wrong with a child going to a loving, warm morah for a few hours a day and it does NOT mean that the mother (working or not) is not raising her own child.
Why did you find it appropriate to begin a personal attack against what you surmise is my personal financial position? Why do you assume I take handouts from my family/the government? Your comments are exactly building on my point…a wife and mother has a job more important than money and I believe as a collective we have lost sight of that. We live a much more materialistic existence than our parents and grandparents and we are still in the endless pursuit of more. Maybe if we were to concentrate on an appropriate level of hishtadlus, keeping our Torah values in mind (instead of our bank balances) it wouldn’t be so difficult.
To #39 A family that will put their focus on having a house as opposed to leasing fancy vehicles or going on vacation, and from their start of marriage forgo honeymoons that are thousands of dollars, yes it is possible to scrap together Enough money over the time for a one time down payment for a nice comfortable home, yes and the tennant part defiantly makes sense.
Of course not everyone can do this but it’s the reason u are seeing many new big nice homes with old jalopy cars outside them. It doesn’t mean the ppl are rich, the opposite it means the people have their priorities.
Exactly right #46. We just put a down payment on a house for $500,000. We had to put down $50,000 and the other $50,000 when it’s finished being built in about 8 months (total $100,000). Yes I saved up for 2 years before my chasunah and summers and saved up a little after I got married. My grandparents are giving me some money as well. I have a used car and am extremely careful in what I spend. It’s true, you can save up if your priorities are right. I feel my kids need a spacious house rather than a nice fancy car. Overpriced clothing or toys. Also I would rather save up for my childrens chasunah from when they are born than live my life on a standard that I cannot upkeep.
I work full time and my sister in law works part time. she’s on hud in a nice big townhouse and I pay my rent for a 3 bedroom apt. she’s on jersey care and I pay a high premium for my private insurance. I pay copays and her dr visits are free. I pay for my food and she has food stamps. I don’t see how I will have more money in the future to marry of my children than she will. I have to pay for everything and work full time while she stays at home and has everything paid for. no she isn’t able to put away money for the future but neither can I. So why shouldn’t I sit at home, take care of kids and be eligible for programs? I’m not any richer from working than my sister in law is from programs.
#39 I know who you are:) and you are correct. I am making a pretty nice salary for Lakewood standards, but it still doesn’t cover my family expenses all the way. But I pay up my tuition in full by every years’ end and my bills in general get made. I live extremely frugally and don’t intend to change my life style just to keep up with the Jones. I believe that close to 95% of the people buying these Monstrosities are unable to afford them and live 3/4 of their lives paying people back or they just don’t pay their schools, grocery bill and so forth. I don’t know how these people sleep at night!