Dear Lakewood Scoop Readers, We are all aware that parents possess the ability to attempt to make the best health decisions for themselves and their families. The majority of those who choose not to vaccinate authentically believe that their refusal will enhance the overall wellness of their families, as well as avoid what they believe to be a small chance of bringing on autism. While they may be entitled to their beliefs, is it possible that during the time of an actual outbreak, when a parent’s decision of trying to provide “better health” for themselves and their families will directly cause those whose immune systems are compromised (whether from chemo or from infanthood), then their decision to refuse vaccination is a bit centered around their own well-being?
Is it possible for them to perhaps rethink their decisions, because at this point the “risk” they may take to vaccinate may allow an immunocompromised individual to be protected from severe injury or even death r”l?
And in conclusion, the Gemara holds that 1 must follow the majority of doctors, which clearly shows us that even if we are not comfortable with vaccinating, it certainly is our proper hishtadlus at this point in time?
I am a believer that people are good, they mean well, and truly have good intentions. It is my hope that these good-hearted people will read this and with Hashem’s help re-evaluate the decisions they have made in order to show their care and love for their fellow Yid. I have confidence that they will, although no doubt this decision is a hard one. Going against something you hold strongly to be true is no easy task, but perhaps if we look at it as our mesiras nefesh for saving another and for listening to the Gemara’s psak, we can use our inner strength to do the right thing.
May HKB”H grant us all siyata dishmaya to what’s right, and may we strengthen our achdus and love for one another, hopefully bringing all final refuos with the coming of Mashiach b’mehaira v’yameinu amen!
Yours truly,
-K’Ish Echod Belev Echod
(TLS welcomes your letters by submitting them to [email protected])
I vaccinate. If you’re saying to do what is best for everyone, what if vaccinating will hurt you? What if I’m weak and can’t handle a vaccine should I vaccinate because if I don’t it may hurt someone else? I don’t understand this logic. Anti vaxxers don’t avoid vaccines for no reason. Something is not justified. Do your hishtadlus and pray. You cannot change the world!
No offense, but I think you misunderstood the letter’s point. I believe it was geared toward the typical “anti-vaxxers”, who do not refuse vaccination biz they r “weak and can’t handle”, but rather bcbs they r looking for an over-all “health-conscious” lifestyle.
You wrote “the gemara says one must follow majority of doctors.”
There is no such gemara. At least not in bavli.
Look in Gemara Yoma. It is in the last chapter. Hatzlocha! 🙂
Hishtadlus is following modern medicine and getting vaccinated, not causing an outbreak and whining about no one inviting you over anymore. If there’s no LEGITIMATE medical reason not to be vaccinated, you’re not doing your hishtadlus.
Majority of doctors? 1. Min hatorah you don’t need to be an MD to be called a rofeh – as matter of fact the MD kind of refuah is not the kind that was practiced way back… So, we would need to count all people who heal and then count the opinions to see what is majority
2. Rare is the MD who personally researched this topic for significant time. Majority + are following the CDCs recommendations, so all those don’t count as separate opinions, rather they count as one.
In response to 1: anyone who truly understands science and medicine, even those who are not practicing medicine, clearly acknowledge the benefits of vaccines.
In response to 2: I’m so sorry to differ but your statement is simply untrue. Over 30 medical journals have researched/done studies on his topic and every single one independently concluded that vaccines diminish (not increase) illness (and even eradicated these diseases from the country) and all studies also concluded that there is zero tie to autism! Sorry for bringing the facts, but they are hard to argue with 😉
1. this is not a fact, this is your opinion. I “clearly” know people who “truly” understand science and medicine, who don’t say the same as other MDs. So “clearly” this is not fact, it is two different opinions.
2. a. 30 medical journals did not do studies, they printed and reprinted other studies. It doesn’t count as 30. b. IF anyone really cares to sift through all the data, I did, and I found three studies from the “holy” CDC that mention “CDC and research partners found statistically significant associations between thimerosal and language delays and tics”, “a few statistically significant associations between exposure from thimerosal and neuropsychological functioning”, and “a small association between early thimerosal exposure and the presence of tics in boys”. That last one mentions the need to perform additional studies to examine the association.
Additionally, did you hear of mitochondrial disease? Dr. Richard I. Kelly the Director of the metabolism department at the Krieger Institute by John Hopkins? He has seen MMR bring on regressive autism. Yes it is rare, because most children don’t have mitochondrial disease. But those that do have it are not aware until afterwards when the damage is done. (But that doesn’t mean it is too late, by the way, Dr. Kelly has a treatment protocol that can reverse the damage especially if initiated early after the injury, but can help even later on…)
In ur research did u come across how “connections made” to which u r referring were variously proven to be from: fake doctors (literally-some of them do not exist!), studies done were proven to have the researcher connected to lawyers looking to make money, and others by doctors who lost their medical license for unethical practice. Lots of evidence, huh? 🙁
Check Oruch Hashulchan dinim of Bikur Cholim : you have to be MD
Np for antivaxers. Create your own community and have your own schools so the rest of the world can be protected
Thank you
Yaari: he is referring to the gemorah in the last perek of yoma. When there’s a dipute amongst doctors whether an individual is well enough to fast we follow the majority.
Yocheved: that would be acknowledged healers. Poskim would make that determination before allowing someone to eat on Yom Kippur
Yehuda: thanks for confirming that there is no such gemara. The gemara is discussing a chola on Yom Kippur that says he doesn’t need to eat. The gemara says if the doctor says he needs to we force him to eat. If the chola says he needs food the gemara says we feed him even if 100 doctors say he doesn’t need to eat. The gemara says if one doctor says he needs and one says he doesn’t we feed him. The gemara then says that if two say he needs to eat (ie he is not safe without eating) even if 100 doctors say he doesn’t need to eat we force him to eat.
So for those that learn – they know the gemara and the Shulchan Aruch do not say you go after rov rofim. That was made up and said over by people who listen to the radio.
Yehuda: According to you before a person undergoes a procedure he should have to visit many doctors and then go basar rov. That is absurd. He can go to a doctor and choose to follow what his doctor says even without knowing if other doctors agree or disagree.
Headline “anti vaxxers are good people.”
Response “no, they are not.”
Anti vaxxers are the epitome of conspiracy theorists.
Furthermore, Good conspiracy theorists have a lot of exciting literature that make wild connections. In addition, they make “research” about correlation without any proof of causation.
Henceforth the creation of the anti vaxxers.
Finally, If they weren’t so dangerous Anti vaxxers would be in the same category as 9/11 truther.
Conclusion, they are not good people.
Time will tell if they are good- if they read this and take a fresh look at the situation and then overcome their desire not to vaccinate and vaccinate anyway, we will know they really are good! Let’s judge them favorably and hope for the best?! I think they may be good-and if they choose to vaccinate(though difficult for them) then we’ll know they r good!!?!
I believe the author of this letter is referring to Gemara Yuma, the last Perek: The Gemara displays that if some doctors tell an individual to eat on Yom Kippur, and some doctors say fast, the individual is obligated to follow the majority of doctors!! 🙂
Wow, thank u author of this letter. This really shakes me to wake up and look at this in a new light. I admit I perhaps have been wrapped up in my emotional stance in this and my family’s “health”, but u said it so kindly that I’m maybe ready to listen and hear u…thank u for not bashing me but for understanding me. I do care about klal yisroel and need to digest this to see if I’m ready to give up on what I thought made sense, …but if I’m risking harming s/o who went thru chemo-u r right! I am being self-centered. …but i did hear verification of both R Elyashiv & R Chaim Kanievsky also saying to vaccinate, so that also gives me confidence that perhaps vaccinating at this time is my proper hishtadlus?!!
The stock picture looks like the arm of a woman. Was that a mistake? Unlike a chareidi website to use such a picture.
Where does it say that you need to do mesiras nefesh for someone else? חייך קודמים
If ur not sure, call up R’ Chaim Kanievsky and he will explain to u how when there’s a minute possibility of what they fear vs a huge possibility of killing ur neighbor on chemo, how it’s mandatory that we vaccinate. I imagine the letter-writer is using that terminology bcz he/she understands that in the anti-vaxxers eyes this is a very challenging decision, yet they can strengthen themselves by knowing that they are truly being moser nefesh to do the right thing! And I commend them all- chazak viyamatz!
Yay I love this letter! Someone out there actually believes in achdus!! And it is so beautifully written- I really think we will all take a fresh look at what we believe is rifght vs what’s really the right thing to do-which means we will all try to do the right thing for the psak and the klal….going to daven extra for Moshiach to come today-thanks for the inspiring letter!!
Wow thank you for that letter…. not sure how to process it…..how will I tell everyone that until now I held strongly to not vaccinate but now I’m just going to vaccinate bcz a letter inspired me? Like I just swallowed that I might kill a cancer patient in town? So I will get over my hesitations and take the leap and hope following the Gedolim’s psak will help Hashem protect me? And protect me from looking silly to all the people I told that I will never vaxx ? I think I’m ready to do this-I need to know I’m strong enough to choose Hashem’s will…?!
Dear k’ish echod: Thank you for understanding that we are good people! I really will give your words thought. You have a good point. Thank you for taking the time to write the letter and with such an understanding, nice tone. It is appreciated and I’m sure that others feel the same?! May we all speak nicely of each other and to each other?!
Umm…yes I think this letter brings out a good point: Why must we all get angry at each other? Let’s just love each other and choose what’s really right! I think they will do the right thing if everyone stops bashing them. At this point this will show them that we really do care about them. And then they will hopefully care to do the right thing?! I’m sure they will if they’re looking out for their brethren. Pls respond with things that will only strengthen our unity? (Bcz bashing others wont convince them to do what’s right anyway!)
Dear those who are hesitant to vaccinate. We will not look at you vaccinating your children at this point as a sign of weakness! We will look at it as a sign of strength…And as a sign of love for your fellow possibly immunocompromised brother. You are amazing! You can do it! Thank you. Your efforts to look out for all will surely be rewarded!
Its simple if you put people @ risk, then you should live in a forest, or vaccinate.
sorry don’t have time to reeeeeeeeeead article in its entirety.
The gemara doesn’t say to go after the majority of doctors. The gemara says that if the sick person says he doesn’t need food and the doctor says he does, he must follow the doctor. If he says he needs food even if 100 doctors say he doesn’t he must eat. The only case of majority is if the sick person doesn’t know and one doctor says he needs two doctors say he doesn’t he doesn’t then he may fast. Once two doctors say he needs to eat even if 100 say he doesn’t he must eat.
Even for a lay person: I think R’ Elyashiv and R’ Chaim Kanievsky are certainly enough of a voice to listen to and they said every person should vaccinate! So if ur doctor and real studies aren’t enough for u, surely you wouldn’t claim to have more siyata dishmaya than these Gedolei Hador?
To vax, or not to vax?
Taking what I know of the medical industry, the pharmaceutical industry, and the “oversight committees”, I base my decision on the following facts (check for yourself):
1, The FDA does NOT test anything. They rely on testing results from the companies making the products.
2. FDA approval panels are often comprised of people with a vested interest (read: stock holdings, pending future job offers) in approving medicines, and allowing them to enter the market.
3. “Big Pharma” is Big Business. They can make any claim they like about anything, but the fact remains that they’d be out of business, if the entire population was healthy.
As a child, I knew of nobody with autism. Now, it seems to be everywhere. Children who are perfectly healthy one day, seem to be severely autistic the next. Yes, “studies have confirmed that it wasn’t the vaccines that caused autism”…
1. Studies done by Whom?
2. Studies paid-for, by Whom?
The fact remains that SOMETHING is making kids autistic, and it is the right and duty of every parent who cares about their child, to question the motives of a for-profit industry, that manufactures the very product suspected of causing the problem.
Until I see INDEPENDENT verification that adjuvants like Thimerosal (which is basically Mercury, a known toxin to humans), are harmless, I’ll stay vaccine-free, thank you.
Oy, everyone don’t jump on “Ben”. He really has good intentions. He is unfortunately just lacking loads of information (listen to podcast of headlines about Halacha regarding vaccines, the part by rabbi Akiva tatz and hopefully that will clarify much of the above). We know u mean well Ben, so hatzlocha Raba, and may HKB”H help u have clarity in seeing past the blockage that u seem to have encountered based upon what u wrote above. (And if u do come around and decide to vaccinate, we will not make fun that unchanged ur mind- we will only be supportive and proud of u! Hatzlocha!)