FIRST REPORT: Two Lakewood Children Required to be Matir Neder after being Mekabel Nezires upon themselves

cheder kidsIt’s the type of story you don’t hear every day, but a story that sure taught a lesson to one class, and beyond.

Sources tell TLS that while Learning about Nazir last week in Cheder, two 12-year-old children almost Bar Mitzvah apparently found it fascinating, and declared to the class that they’re becoming a Nazir!

Some of the stringencies of a Nazir include not being allowed to drink grape juice, cutting your hair, or going into a Bais Hakvaros.

Though they reportedly announced it was just for a minute or a day, the minimum length of time for Nezires is 30 days, thus putting them in a sticky situation because their declaration came just before their Bar Mitzvah.

The Rebbe decided to ask a Shaila, and approached one of the Lakewood Poskim. The Posek took the matter very seriously, and took the Shaila to the Philadelphia Rosh Yeshivah Reb Shmuel Kaminetzky Shlita.

On behalf of TLS, a Talmid of Reb Shmuel Kaminetzky Shlita inquired from the Rosh Yeshivah as to the accuracy of the incident, and the Rosh Yeshivah confirmed it was indeed the case, and the Shaila was brought before him.

“The Rosh Yeshivah said that he had Paskened that the children should keep the Dinim of Nezires, and that the children would have to go to a Rav to be Matir Neder. However, the Rosh Yeshivah said the children should only go after Shabbos, so they have time to reflect on the seriousness of a simple declaration.”



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There are 22 Comments to "FIRST REPORT: Two Lakewood Children Required to be Matir Neder after being Mekabel Nezires upon themselves"

  • Nyte says:

    Wait what?

  • teacher says:

    What makes it difficult is that regardless of how short the nezirus is, the prohibitions aren’t lifted until the korbanos are brought.

  • litvak says:

    It is much more serious than that. a Nazir cannot bring the necessary Korbanos today so effectively he must keep dini nezirus for life. please correct the information so that no ober chochom decides its a good idea anh he/she can manage for 30 days.

  • Hello says:

    I like the story. And a mussar.

  • s jacobs says:

    ALTHOUGH a neder made by a 12 yr old is valid., can a 12 yr old be shoel and be matir his neder? is there maybe an ohr sameach somewhere who discusses it?

  • Mara D'asra says:

    The only way to be mattir nezirus is with a korban… Bizman haze, the only thing you can do is to be oiker the nezirus limaphrea.. But you need to have a valid reason for regretting to make the nezirus in the first place.. The point is well taken – but for hilchos nezirus bizman haze, contact a Ruv not TLS.

  • huh says:

    To all those commenting on how they’d paskin,the Rebbi asked Rav Shmuel and not you because you are not the address for such shailos.

  • Einer Aza says:

    The Mishneh lamelech in Nezirus 2:13 has a sofek if a child can be matir neder. This child is in serious trouble. Maybe he can be matir after his barmitzva

  • Chuchem says:

    The mishneh lemelech is talking about a father that was madir his son according to some achronim. If he made it himself he would be able to be mattir. Also if he can’t be mattir as a koton he may not be able to do it as a gadol. Bekitzur leave it up to the poskim not a TLS comment section.

  • einer aza says:

    The mishneh lamelech is talking about a number of cases. Read till the end, don’t stop on the way.
    And who tells you I am not a posek?

  • WOW says:

    BH Far unzere Gidolim!!

  • Chuchem says:

    Your not a posek because you are giving a de’ah on a complex halachic issue on TLS. Second, look up shu”t lehoros nosson 8:77. See west he brings from reb shlomo Kluger in regard to the mishneh lemelech. Enjoy.

  • s jacobs says:

    my psak
    1. he should be “mattir neder” now at 12 and for now be somech on those shitos which allow shaeilah by a mufla sumech l’iish

    2.he should be “mattir neder” again at 13 to be yootza the shitos which hold the sheilah was invalid at 12

    3. he should be “mattir neder” again when he brings 2 sa’aros— there is no chazaka d’raba for di’oraisa

  • Yankle says:

    or you could listen to the multipile shiurim Rabbi Reisman has given on this topic at his navi Shiur

  • einer aza says:

    S Jacobs, how can he ‘rely’ on a shitah when we have a sofek de’oraysa?

  • einer aza says:

    Chuchem, thanks for the mareh makom, but the sugya is ok n no way decided. See the imrei binah that he quotes who is clearly talking about a child who was noder him/herself.
    This child was not allowed to sit at his family’s shabbos table because of the nezirus. Forcing him to wait seems a bad idea

  • Chuchem says:

    Yes I saw that. Bottom line it’s not something to pasken on a dime. Needs a baki in the sugya and thorough thought. Agree 100% that it doesn’t sound like the best idea to make the children wait over shabbos. Especially since they aren’t familiar with the halachos of nezirus. He couldn’t brush his hair and maybe not even shampoo if it’s a psik reisha that he will pull out hair.

  • s jacobs says:

    EINER :b4 bar mitzvah its chunuch dirabanan so he can rely on shitos which allow hatarah

  • Samiam says:

    @S jacobs: Maimonides states that 12 year old must bring offerings to the temple. It is clearly not rabbinical as you seem to believe.

  • s jacobs says:

    sam , you cant be michayev a minor things min hatorah ….minors are only mechuyav from chinuch….the din of mufla sumech l’ish means that upon turning 13 he is mechuyav midoraisah to keep his neder made while 12.

    as far as the RAMBAM you quote, well that needs further research….. but thia is for sure that a minors cant have torah chiyuvim period

  • einer aza says:

    The raavad disagrees for that reason.

  • s jacobs says:

    CHUCHU=EM — do u agree with my recommendations of 3 times hatarah

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