1. If you continue to not follow the orders of the medical professionals and wear masks in shuls after this new wave and now new deaths – I hope you are prepared to say “your hands did not spill his blood” We are no longer in a situation where people are not going to the hospital and dying. They now are going to the hospital and dying. Wake up and even if you don’t believe in this please wear a mask because your friends may be worried and you will be noise beol im chavero. To stand there and say that since I have antibodies so I don’t care about being one to carry it and give to someone else who doesn’t seems like a rishus IMHO

   • I don’t think anybody has said that those with antibodies can infect others, inasmuch as they cannot be infected themselves.

     I wouldn’t call it rish’us without better information.

     As far as we currently know, re-infection is not a matter of concern, and we don’t need to worry about it.

     And it seems there is one death, not multiple deaths. Just a pedantic correction, one death is too many.

     • There has been a second death as of today. And more in critical condition.

     • There have been at least 2 deaths in Lakewood this week already. There are dozens of confirmed cases of reinfection in our community and growing.

     • Even if what you are saying is true – your friends don’t know if you have antibodies so it is still a help to him. It is not useful to search through a full statement, pick one point that you don’t agree with and thereby negate everything else said. Each point should stand on its own merits or lack thereof

2. Why you continue promoting masks when everyone knows IT DOESN’T HELP???

   • ‘Everyone’ knows? Except of course the researchers.

     But Chani from the bungalow colony said…………………..

     We are an עם חכם ונבון, let us stop acting otherwise.

   • Here’s an idea, why don’t you ask a doctor if it helps? Not the town yenta, your cousin, or your Rosh Yeshiva. Ask your doctor, like you do with all medical questions.

     I’ll bet your one of the people that when you catch COVID you’re going to go around outside no problem because “I’m wearing a mask!”

3. Does this mean people can get it twice? If they have antibodies?

   • @ Wondering: YES-people are getting it twice! positive test results back in march, april and now again positive! its not common and may be unlikely for most to get it twice but YES!! ABSOLUTELY people can get it twice!

     • Do you have any documented proof of someone having had a positive test AND antibodies that tested positive a 2nd time, not attributable to remaining spores of first infection?

     • We expect that some individuals will get it twice. Just like we expect that some people will get killed in car crashes.
       Most people aren’t getting it twice.
       Some people get chicken pox twice, most don’t.
       I don’t believe it’s reasonable for everyone with antibodies to expect to get covid again.

4. Publishing these letters is not helpful. It is not fair. It is only the opinion of a few.

   A few months ago the letters were signed by 16 to 20 drs now they are signed by 5. There are very strong differences of opinion and many great doctors in our community are not nearly as frightened as these types of letters make it seem.

   Yes be safe, yes be smart, yes stay home if you dont feel well but don’t make this worse than it is.

   Every life is valuable and precious but we cannot run our lives based on being afraid of every 1 life because the derech haoilam is people get sick and pass away. We have never stopped people from Davening or going to yeshiva until this unfortunate horrible pandemic hit. We are not in a matzav of panic anymore and need to calm everyone down. The reality is that the more people test the more positive cases there will be and that does NOT translate automatically to more hospitalizations and deaths.

   Hatzoloh of Lakewood even instructed their members to encourage people to go to the hospitals since this disease is much more treatable today then it was and the hospitals are not full.

   Don’t mix up what I am saying to mean that I say there is nothing to be worried about. I am saying only that there is no need to panic and we need to justify the response equal to the issue not overblow it

   if now only 5 doctors sign a letter and not 20 it could be that the other 15 are not as concerned and just can’t write their real opinion for fear of state fines and losing their rights to practice

   • This letter is from one medical practice, that is why only their doctors signed. Can you name one local doctor who is not concerned?
     If you think that your doctor would tell you otherwise please ask them yourself, but please do not make your own medical decisions that can put others in danger!

   • As yidden, we DO care about every ONE life.

     Unless I misunderstood you.

     • I’m sure everyone cares about every single life. The question is up to what point? Do we ban all trucks? hot dogs & grapes (choking risks)? swimming pools?
       I say this as someone who has seen the anguish of Covid from up close.
       We take basic steps to mitigate risk but we can never eliminate every risk. My own personal opinion is that everything we are doing can only spread & prolong the pain. Which is what we are seeing in E”Y R”L. So instead of just dealing with covid, they are dealing with all the associated issues of the lockdown – loss of parnasah, mental anguish, so many kids getting destroyed. We in America at least had 5 months of quiet to pick up the pieces and have a semblance of normalcy.

       • So what is the solution?

         To open everything up and just allow so many more people to get sick and maybe ch”v die?

   • I actually went to a Doctor not on this list and he was pretty close to the recommendation of this letter.

5. Anyone who wears a mask to go into a non Jewish store and won’t wear one in a Jewish store ….

6. Please follow the guidelines that everyone is supposed to follow: Socially distant Masks Avoid crowds Repeat handwashing Throw away soiled masks and handerchiefs… be SMART…

7. I commend these doctors for putting themselves out there and warning the community of the real dangers that exist. There is nothing that the doctors gain personally from this except to get nasty comments from people that have sufficiently worked on their middos.

   As a long time patient of OCIMA (as well as my parents and grandparents) I can attest to the tzidkos and responsible caring service that these doctors have provided our community. Thank you so much for putting out this information. Bimokom shain ish…

   To all people who trust responsible medical advice over the “hock from the oilem” and really want to wear a mask in shul but are hesitant to do so due to peer pressure, please keep the following in mind: doing the ratzon Hashem is far more important then succumbing to peer pressure and you will be far far more comfortable in the next world.

   • Very well said.

8. HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE and ZINC. It works.

9. There’s misinformation and wild claims out there, but for all the people who aren’t looking for excuses, things are straightforward.
   COVID is all over, and we have people in dire straights and already at least one death. 99% of the medical professionals all say the same thing. We can stop the spread when we don’t allow the virus to spread through mask-wearing, social distancing.
   This really isn’t complicated.
   It’s the responsibility of every single individual to do their part, and when we come in front of RBSO we will have to answer why we didn’t follow the medical consensus when lives were at stake.
   It’s hard for me to believe that a good answer is, “I had an alternative theory.”

10. Any Halachic questions should be addressed by your LOR. The Drs should submit their opinions to the Rabbonim of Lakewood so that they (the Rabbonim) can guide their congregants accordingly. Anything deviating from the stated is just “hock gossip etc…”

    Drs are great and have the health and safety of the community in mind and at heart. They dont have Das Torah. Leave that to your Robbonim.

    These letters do no one any favors. Dr says A. Rov says B. conflicting answers….. Everyone silence what you hear and read from the world!!! Pick up a phone and ask your LOR!!!

    • Ask a Rov if one should wear a mask and social distance???? Do you ask a Rov every time you go out of the house? The Rov is for a question in Halacha. Wearing a mask is not a question of Halacha. I agree that when it comes to a question of whether one should daven b’yechidus or b’minayan, a Rov should be consulted. Wearing a mask and social distancing is NOT a halach question, and does not require a p’sak from a Rov. Please, use a little seichel!

      • Davening outside. Wearing a mask in Shul etc…. Ask your LOR.
        As for how to react to a health crisis. This too should be discussed with your LOR. There are many ramifications both mental and spiritual. Bringing anxiety into your home etc… All of these should be discussed with your LOR. Use a little seichel. Are you afraid your Rov will tell you its not necessary? What then? Al Yemin Smoel vAl Smoel Yemin goes out the window? This is probably the biggest crisis most of us have ever faced. Wouldnt Das Torah be more prevalent now then ever before?

11. Please listen too this amazing Doctors. This is not a joke. Wear a mask, distance urself, wash ur hands. FYI I work with these amazing Drs. And they are telling u the truth.

12. How many people wish they could rewind and redo Purim, when the threat was somewhat unknown…lets learn our lesson and keep Simchas Torah small and quiet. a trot around the Bimah 7 times, no sweating, drinking, linking arms.
    LET’S SAVE LIVES!!

    • Love that extra pork you shoved in there. Why no drinking? What does that have to do with anything?

13. I only read the letters and do my research. I take the maximum safety precautions with my wife, kids, and myself as I do in everything else in my life so as not to cause harm to my family or anyone else.

    Frankly, I’m not interested in your comments. I’m betting that some of them are outright dangerous and others are just Chachamim Shekarim wasting their time arguing. Give it up. Go daven. Go learn. Listen to YOUR Rav and Doctor and keep it to yourself.

    BTW I only read the letter. I did not, nor will I read the comments. I’m done. Be well, may Hashem help you.

14. Does anyone know how to convince teenagers to wear masks. when they see the adults around them not wearing masks?

15. Can i ask how the picture of the socially distanced minyan is relevant to this letter?

16. It is important that the masks are worn properly. If you do not cover your nose, this makes the mask ineffective. If you touch public Surfaces and then your cell phone and then your face this is also ineffective. Handwashing along with PROPER use of masks are necessary. Thank you Doctors For the short to the point sound advice.

17. Thank you Doctors for working to keep us healthy and safe. Thank you to all those who wear masks. Wearing a mask protects the people around you, especially those, like me, who are at high risk. I appreciate those who put up with the discomfort for the sake of the health of others. I’m not Jewish, but I believe the right word for this is a mitzvah.

18. Why is vitamin D not being promoted by the medical professionals? Studies are showing it can help prevent people from getting the virus. In addition, they should be telling people to take vitamin c, as well as quercetin and zinc if they have been exposed to someone who got the virus. Actually, you do not have to wait to hear this from your doctor. Call him or her and ask him how much of these vitamins/minerals are safe for you to take. My neighbor who is a pharmacist said I should be taking either 5,000 IU vitamin D once a week, or 1,000 IU every day…and vitamin C about 1,000 – 2,000 mg every day. I use the Buffered C Crystals (powder) available from Bluebonnet. In regard to the quercetin (which is similar to hydroxy but over the counter) and zinc, the Zelenko protocol is 500 mg quercetin and 25 mg zinc as preventative, and double that if have the virus – but check with your doctor first.

    • I absolutely concur with this post. People should be taking Vitamin D,Vitamin C, Quercetin and Zinc as a prophylaxis protocol. Also EGCG(found in Green Tea) can be used as a zinc ionophore.

    • I know quite a few doctors in town are promoting Vitamins C & D as well as zinc.

19. The person who said stay home if you don’t feel well is sadly uninformed.

    We have been told for months by the CDC that people carrying COVID are often contagious BEFORE they feel sick and some carriers of COVID never feel sick at all. So just telling people who feel sick to stay out of sight will NOT stop the spread. Everyone is a potential carrier. That is a fact.

    To answer another comment: Second infections have thus far been uncommon, but they will become more commonplace as time goes by. That is because doctors know from other Coronaviruses that antibodies don’t last forever. That is a fact. We just don’t know how long this particular virus’ antibodies last. But we are seeing reinfections, and that means more will come.

    And sadly, finally to the commenter who said that we want to be able to say “Yadeinu lo Shafchu es haDam HaZeh”, I think the community is beyond this point. The frum communities in the tristate area with few exceptions gave up on masks months ago when the CDC recommended them and state governments required them for all indoor gatherings. Our yeshivas have opened as if things are back to normal. We have openly flaunted the law (and common sense) by davening indoors with no distancing or masking, holding 400 person weddings, holding large kiddushes.

    My son’s whole yeshiva was infected by one bachur who attended a wedding after he had tested negative. He arrived at the yeshiva, felt fine, then infected everyone and then felt ill himself.

    If you attended a wedding or minyan unmasked, then you may have infected people.

    When people are dying in a community that has knowingly flaunted medical advice, we are guilty.

20. Schools please follow the advice of doctors.

21. People with Corona should NOT be davening at these minyans! They are putting elderly and immunocompromised at risk! They should remain quarantined at home.

    • I read the comments. No one said that people with Corona went out to daven with a Minyan.

22. Instead of being selfish wear a mask and distance so people who never got it shouldn’t get it, why is it only, “I got it already”? and yes you can get it again.

23. we cant control how sick someone will get , we can only daven that they have a refuah shlaimah. the point of the quarantine and social distancing was to SLOW down the spread. we cant stop it totally. those that are getting it now didnt get it earlier . the flattening of the curve was meant to save the healthcare system from having too many critically sick people at once, but over time they can handle it. it was never going to stop the spreading of the disease, only hashem in his infinite mercy can do that. us mere mortals are helpless. but wearing a mask is normal hishtadlus along with washing your hands with soap .
    bottom line is if you have any possibility of having the disease you must say home and away from others.
    if you are waiting results from a test , be machmir until you hear back negative. who knows who spread it to someone who was niftar and will be surprised after 120 when he gets charged with rtzicha !!!

    • so if an old man catches the flu from me do i also get charged with retzicha?

      • If you know you have the flu and hang around an old man then you are most definitely a rodef and if he dies, well, fill in the blank yourself.

        The issue with COVID is that you often don’t know you have it until much later and by then you will have infected others. That is not true of the flu. So keep your distance and don’t make out like there’s nothing you can do.

        Were a mask in social gatherings.

      • Nobody has died of the flu in the last 10 years in Lakewood, so you shouldn’t be too nervous. On the other hand, more than 200 have died of COVID in Lakewood this year alone, so that’s a serious concern.

        • Um…that is not true. My friends neice, from Lakewood, died from the flu a few years ago…

        • Actually 85,000 people dies of flu last year in the US

24. I recently got corona and I although I am not “that sick” as BH I did not go to the hospital and I have had no issue breathing. I have been SUFFERING tremendously.
    I have incredible painful dizzy spells, brain fatigue, and insomnia. I cannot stay focused for more than a few minutes. I need my mind to make parnassah and my wife cannot work either, because we are quarantined at home with our children.
    No doubt Corona is a serious illness. It has many effects besides death, that should be considered.
    I dont think we should shut shuls and businesses but I do think we should take every precaution possible.
    If doctors in this town who are dedicated to our wellbeing advise a certain precaution then I think it behooves us to listen.
    Is it really that hard to wear a mask for an hour during shul or while shopping.?
    Just expand your mind and try to put yourself in the shoes of those suffering.
    Even a simple act of thinking about another yid will be a zechus to bring a yeshua to this machla.

    • Well said, Joe, thank you for the comment.

      Refuah Sheleima Bekarov!

25. Reading through these comments and others from different posts on TLS makes me sad. Sad because the worst sinas chinam and midos has some from this. I don’t know if masks work or not. What I do know is that when we openly disobey the law whether we agree with it or not our children get the message that breaking the law is ok. If they see that enough times and also see their schools and shuls breaking the law, why would they not come to break Hashem’s law? Once it’s part of their midos to be okay with sheker, it’s hard for them to push the pause button and sheker can become part of them. I wish Lakewood’s rabbonim could come together, all of them, and agree on what people here should do al pi halacha. I know it would be hard to get a consensus but other more diverse communities have made it happen. We need to have rabbonim guide us now because our midos are getting out of control- just read the comments and it will sadden you too to see that this is what klal yisroel is becoming

26. Just a thought for people after Yom Kippur
    Perhaps we should ask mechila from all unvaccinated people that we hurt embarrassed and put down lately , when we were afraid of them catching measles and spreading it although they were healthy we wanted security of not getting sick and didn’t allow them in schools or Shuls to come in.
    Mida keneged mida , virus , schools , shuls , no vaccines .
    Does anyone here agree with my thought ?

    • Not only are you correct but the interesting thing is that many of the people who were previously very pro the medical establishment and believed to take every vaccine religiously without asking questions – have all of a sudden questioned everything the medical establishment says – in essence much of lakewood has become anti vaccers (people that are skeptical of the medical communities directives). Isn’t that fascinating. You can’t have it both way folks.

27. We need to listen to our Doctors’s voice. I know we have protection of G-D but we need to do our part following the rules in our community, and keep everyone safe.

28. Dear SB
    Were we to also follow said rules in Warsaw? Maybe Auschwitz? What about in Rome, or Spain during the inquisition?
    The EO itself says if someone has a medical issue or finds it difficult to breath with a mask on they need not.
    Mandating someone to wear anything which they don’t want to is a clear violation of our constitution and what we stand for. That is the wrong issue to be teaching our children and it is probably better chinuch to teach them that there are times we don’t listen. To understand the issues and make decisions based on that.How many of our children have gone off the Derech because we simply tell them what they must do and not explain the reasoning.
    Do we teach our children that a Government should be allowed to tell us that we can’t go to a Minyan but we can go to a grocery store, or Target or Lowes?
    We teach our children of the Mesiras nefesh of Klal Yisroel to go learn or Daven in caves. But today we teach them to blindly follow.
    Remeber HKB”H runs the world. Our job is to beseech him.
    So since there is not a single scientific study that says masks do anything, Since cloth masks, by definition only stop 11% of droplets, and no masks that are promoted stop viruses, Don’t lecturer a Tzibur that they need to teach our children to blindly follow.
    Sheker, is telling your children to tell their schools that they don’t have internet when they do. Not this.

    • I hope you are not a Rov. A Rov should not claim ‘we stand for the constitution’. We are Yidden, not Goyim. We follow the Torah, we bend to the constitution inasmuch as dina demalchusa demands it. We should not believe in it or promote anything other than Torah.

      We should teach our children that the government is mandated to take care of the publics’ health, and we follow thei rguidelines because we have no choice, we don’t have our own government (anyway, the comparison to Lowe’s is ridiculous. Ten minutes in and out, far away from silent shoppers, is worlds apart from hours of close contact with people who are speaking loudly).

      HKB”H runs the world, and our job is to listen to him when he told us not to be mazik others.

      And there are many scientific studies that say that masks work, you as a self-appointed Rov of your keyboard didn’t manage to get to them. Wear a mask and be moisser nefesh to do so. That discomfort is your messiras nefesh.

29. For those of you doubting masks or handwashing, if you ever R”L have to have a surgery, please ask all of the staff in the OR to remove their masks and to go in with unsanitary hands as it “doesn’t help anyway”….masks have been part of the medical world for over 100 years..dentists, surgeons, etc, why are they all of a sudden ineffective for a disease spread through aerosolized droplet? A frustrated hatzoloh member.

30. Please use the word “rishous” sparingly. Those who are not masking are just misinformed. It seems that everything today has been infected with the tuma of politics. There is no true clarity anymore. Wearing masks IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO! But those who do not should be educated…THEY ARE NOT RESHAIM!

31. I’m asking everyone to please wear a mask everywhere they go.
    Our health comes first and I know people would like to have a normal life again. Be safe. Protect yourself. Protect others. Take hand sanitizer out with you. Use it often.
    A friend’s father passed away from covid. We don’t want that to happen to anyone else. Be smart. Let’s all work together to fight this virus and make it not welcome. We can do this!

32. One can learn from R Moshe Harari Z’l to be happy and cheerful after a long hard day. The world lost a giant.
    Why? Because of the aczurius of the clal, simple.
    Weddings kill! Large indoor events kill! Mask or no mask DISTANCE OR DEATH
    Indoor fundraisers for out of town mosdos with full buffets of finger food and meat boards like a primitive sudas achashvairosh to shlep a few cc swipes during Covid!
    We have lost our way!
    What about the 47% who weren’t exposed the first time; should 100 of them be korbonois for the herd?
    Would you Switch your grandfather for the Shor Lahzozel?
    WHERE IS OUR LEADERSHIP?
    We can lesson the pain by doing small measures like Davening outside, learning outside ordering online, staying away from large groups, keeping your social circle small and interactions with others brief.
    Everyone needs wake up and focus on what is in their control and hope and pray for the best

33. I have been using this group for over 30 years. They know their stuff. They really care for people. They certainly try their best. Thank u Doctors.

34. L’chvod Toshvei Lakewood,
    There has been a lot of discussion in response to the letter posted above, please allow me to share my thoughts,
    If someone is sick with the virus, he is likely not able to learn, daven with a minyan of do many other mitzvos. He may not be able to bring in parnasa to his family. Lo aleinu, the virus may also bring death.
    Wearing a mask is proven to limit the spreading of the virus. Wearing a mask in shul, while learning and when among other will help keep the virus from spreading.
    After 120, we will give a din v’cheshbon to Hakodosh Boruch Hu. We want to be able to say I did everything I could, during my lifetime, to prevent bitul Torah, Tefila b’tzibur. bitul zman and, Hashem yeracheim, death amongst Bnei yisroel. Yes, it may be uncomfortable to daven and learn with a mask, but what will we answer after 120?
    The Beis Hamikdosh was destroyed because of Sinas Chinam, let us rebuild the Beis Hamikdosh with Ahavas Chanam and wear a mask.
    Why are we waiting for more bitul torah and more deaths? why do we need a Kol Koreh to tell us to where a mask? We spend time looking for the right lulav and esrog, we are careful to which matzos we use – we need that same level of zehirus hamitzvos in protecting Klall Yisroel, Klall Yisroel’s Limud Hatorah and Kiyum Hamtzvos. We need to wear masks.
    PLEASE WEAR A MASK WHEN AMONG OTHERS, you can do it!
    A Gut Yohr un a Gemar Tov!

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