I recently had the misfortune to sit shiva.
The first thing I’d like to say, is that no one lives forever. That being said, coming into my home asking me and inundating me with very personal and intrusive questions totally unacceptable and totally rude.
Then you have the opposite extreme of people who I haven’t seen in 22 years to about 25 years. Many of these people reached out to a friend of mine who I know I have a close connection with, and ask if it would be ok if they come to my house. They literally sit, stare and gawk at me, which also makes me incredibly uncomfortable, because at one point without even realizing, I said out loud why is everybody staring at me.
The point of me writing this letter is to let people know if you’re uncomfortable to go to such a house because you have no connection, it’s best not to go at all. You can always text the person and say I’m sorry for your loss. And if you choose to go, at the very least don’t sit and stare, walk in and say hi, I’m so and so, I know you from such and such, and I was so sorry to hear about your loss. But to come and sit and stare and make it completely awkward and just literally sit for 20 to 40 minutes having to figure out what to say, is incredibly inappropriate.
And for the people who came in and started asking a copious amounts of inappropriate questions, such as, was he sick? Oh my goodness, how long was he sick for? How old was he? How long were you married? etc. etc. None of this helps anybody, in fact, it actually brings more anguish than peace. The whole point of this is to bring peace to the person sitting, this does the opposite. So next time, before you go, think twice: am I going to be hurting or am I going to be helping.
Thank you.
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Everyone mourns differently. Some people prefer that old connections come and some rather not.
Some want to talk about the details on how their loved one got sick and others don’t.
Some want to sit around in silence and have others just sit alongside them and others don’t.
Every point that you wrote in this letter could have an exact opposite point made by a different Avel
May you have a true Nechomah and only have Simchos in your life. Hamokom yenacheim eschem b’shor aveilei tzion verushalayim!
I’m sorry for your loss but maybe the reason people were staring at you and not saying is anything is because they can’t talk to you until you acknowledge them. You have to nod at them and let them know you want to talk, or begin talking to them first. Otherwise, ya they’re just gonna have to sit and stare at you because you have to talk first. Also, the real point of being menachem avel is just to be with the person sitting shiva, not to talk to them and it sounds like that’s what they were doing…..
First off, Hashem should send you a complete Nechama as only He can.
Second, every person who ever sat shiva can write long articles about this problem. It’s especially unfortunate because people WANT to do right and don’t mean bad.
With that in mind, I’ll share some ideas. Anyone who sat shiva should please put in their two cents here and write whether they agree so that people can learn from this list and not cause extra pain.
As a rule, unless you’re very close (and even then usually only if you know that the one sitting wants it), never stay more than 20 minutes. If you feel like you want to really show you care, come back a second time another day instead.
There are Halachos of Aveilue. One of them is not to start the discussion until the avel starts. If the avel doesn’t want to talk, allow that to be. Don’t force the conversation.
Trying to make the Avel feel better is almost always a mistake. Don’t try to console them with things that you thought of on your way over… Unless you’re someone who they really want to hear something from (like, for example, a prominent Rov), it’s probably best not to go down that road.
If you didn’t know the deceased, don’t pretend you did. Simply tell the truth. For example, “I heard you were sitting shiva, and I just felt I needed to come over even though I never knew your X.”
(As an add on, if you feel the need to say something to make the avel feel better, write a letter instead of at shiva. Its not in the moment and comes off as much more caring.)
I’m sure there’s a lot more to add. Hopefully, others will add, and it will be a help for all the well-meaning people.
I’ve had to sit Shiva two times. People that never sat are from 2 types. They either don’t say anything & stare. Or they can’t keep quiet. I found the ones that must keep talking are worse. To not let it get to you, just ignore their question(s). It might be hard, but it will save your Save Sanity!
To number 3, just to clarify I had already spoken, so they we’re not waiting for me to start speaking. You stand corrected they simply didn’t know how to be which was my point exactly.
To number 3, just to clarify I had already spoken, so they we’re not waiting for me to start speaking. You stand corrected they simply didn’t know how to be which was my point exactly.
Yes, this was an extremely difficult seven days for me four months ago. It was uncomfortable, upsetting and, sometimes, it felt like there was a party going on in my house with all the socializing between the visitors themselves (to which I was forced to come). I have no advice to give; only validation for the aveilim’s feelings of being uncomfortable. So how is the nechama from the visitors supposed to work?
Having sat shiva myself I feel that I am qualified to tell you that it sounds like you are in so much pain that those who came were in a no win situation. As time goes on, may the nechama that you will hopefully experience, give you the ability to understand that noone meant any harm.
I have seen many articles and comments about things people do wrong when being menachem avel. Until I sat shiva, I just absorbed these criticisms, even if I didn’t agree with all of them, because I felt that I can’t understand what the aveilim are going through. However, after I unfortunately had to sit shiva myself, I have to agree with comment #1. Except for some objectively very wrong comments, i.e. “You should have used a better doctor,” each avel feels differently. Some things that bother one avel do not bother another. It’s very hard to judge and you have to try to follow the lead of the avel. People who come to be menachem avel are just trying to do a mitzvah. The aveiim are in a vulnerable state and can be upset about behavior that bothers them. But for those who come, it’s not always easy to get it right. Each avel is different.
Seankonnery
Seeing such a large crowd coming to visit someone to be manechem avel them for the loss of their X in itself should be a Nechama to the aveilim who are sitting shiva. And it should show them just how special the niftar meant to so many people who knew him and that should be a big Nechama to the aveilim sitting shiva.
May the niftarim have an Aliya
Sorry for your loss. I sat shiva and agree with the first comment. Everyone is different and reacts differently. Menachem avel is a hard mitzvah and I appreciated everyone’s attempt at it and that they meant well.I can understand you being bothered by old aquaintances showing up. That same thing comforted me greatly. Its so hard to know. May Hashem comfort you!
Staring and gazing is at people is completely inappropriate in any situation. Socializing at a Shiva or Petirah is unthinkable except what is absolutely necessary like for a ride to the house, etc.
I think that people dont necessarily know what to do (especially since this is a young town & B”H they dont have experience) However, try to think of each person that came & the effort they made to come & console you. One might have forgone his shiur/business meeting. A women may have left her home during homework/bedtime etc, got dressed & schlepped out just to show you that he/she cares. Once you see it in that light it may not bother you so much that they didn’t know what to say.
Sorry, I don’t really agree with what you wrote about trying to think of the effort people made. I hope you haven’t sat shiva- assuming that you have not- one who sits shiva really couldn’t care less what people had to give up or how inconvenient it was for them to come be menachem them. And they shouldn’t have to think like that either. The only thing that is really on their minds at that time is their terrible loss. Everything else is petty. After I sat shiva, a person apologized to me for not coming because she had a burst pipe in her kitchen sink and couldn’t leave. She really felt bad and she is a tzadekes of a person, but I still thought to myself “who in the world cares about your PIPE??? I just lost a parent!!!” What SHOULD she have said? I don’t know really. She probably should have just apologized and left it at that, without giving a reason because when a person sits shiva that is the ONLY thing that is on their mind. Mundane things seem just that- mundane. (And of course for that same reason, you do NOT come to be menachem avel all dressed up because you’re on your way to a wedding afterwards! That is the HEIGHT of insensitivity)
I personally know who wrote This original article and I was at the Shiva house a few times during the week being that I am a close friend. I can attest to the fact that many things were inappropriately said and done. Regardless of the fact that you’re doing a nice thing by going I saw on more than one occasion people just asking inappropriate questions over and over and the person sitting s h i v a didn’t say anything because it’s not in their nature to embarrass people I saw how they struggled with the fact how insensitive people were so again even if you took the time out to come and even if every a v e l takes thinks differently and interpret it differently use your common sense it doesn’t matter if you left your family to come see them or if you haven’t seen them recently or not when you come into such a situation either say nothing if you have nothing to say and just try to give him some comfort but use your common sense and logic or don’t go. To all the people saying well you don’t know how one will respond everybody responds differently that’s exactly my point because you don’t know how somebody is going to react first of all use your common sense and don’t say something totally inappropriate or ask questions that are not your business but if you do go on you have nothing to say just sit there don’t embarrass people don’t ask questions and when they don’t answer the questions don’t re-ask the same questions 35 other ways it was absolutely embarrassing what went on in this person’s home I witnessed on many occasions and their home at this house
To Sorry, I’m sorry you are hurting so much. Your feelings sound very strong! We are not judging you but you may want to seek professional counseling. There are highly competent people out there that can help you. And yes even though it is hard, you should appreciate those who came out of their way to be menachem avel.
May you know of no more sorrow!
To number 15” to sorry says. I completely disagree with you whether this person needs professional counseling or help this page Or website is not the forum for this if you read what they are saying they are saying that you should be respectful when you go to a house and you should learn the etiquette of what you say and not what you say
They don’t need to appreciate people came out of their way who came there and offend them and made them have more Anguish than peace and comfort, The reason why you go to someone’s house to pay respects is simply to do that not to make them hurt more than they already are.